HSCC Autosport 3hr Snett 30th/31st May

[Peter Mallett]

Well, from your POV you should be pleased that the vast majority are under 2 litres.

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

It is Terence . . .except tin tops . . . . as I keep saying, theres more parked up than racing . . .why?

Not sure Zef but I dont think its the recession doing it,how would you explain the other grids? Perhaps there are more and more people getting pee'd off with bent cars still running? I counted 41 entries for the 3hr,28 for HRS,29 for the 70's Road sports etc so it cant be the lack of money,unless everyone else is doing ok apart from the tin top owners. F5000 not looking too good at present though.

[zefarelly]

I am Peter, we just want to see more of them. MAsters seem to cater perfectly for the V8's as well, and their split grid gives those multi car races additional opportunities.

I don't think its a recession issue, something is keeping cars away whther its regs ( despite an App K class structure) or something else

The front running HRSR cars are only a little or in a few cases no quicker than the front running 'APp K' cars anyway now as nearly all the App K cars are bent anyway. this feels like a bit of a waste of breath really, but I do wonder how sustainable half a tin top grid is to a bustling HSCC roster, something needs refreshing/changing or at the least remarketing or branding

[Colin McKay]

I agree, disappointed at the entry, it's going to be a lonely, hot 40 mins. But a blast nevertheless!

[zefarelly]

I do at least have 3 cars in my class, not that I'm going to catch Michael in his LC under normal circumstances, not sure how quick the Shaguar is but we might pass one another, on occaision!

[James Murray]

Could it be the rules? Appendix K cars can race with masters and ut2c so most people plumb for an FIA car for the versatility it offers. HRSR have knowhere else to go so less and less people bother with it and only the stalwarts are left. If the HSCC series went FIA would more cars turn out?

Terry re the F5000's the reason the grid is so small is because most of the f2/atlantic cars are at monza next weekend. If you add those and the 5000's together you would expect 20 cars.

[terence]

Yes,I hadn't thought of that Jame's RE F5000.
I think you could be right regarding tin tops,perhaps it is down to the ruling covering these car's.I still think there IS room for a premier FIA Championship,properly policed and run I'm sure that would bring in/back those who really care about these matter's,all that's needed is an organizer brave enough to do it.I have to add that I would give serious consideration to something like an Alfa Guillia if something like that were to be brought in.Yes, I know there are plenty of series to choose from,but there is no FIA recognition to any of the current series being run.Say a six round championship visiting Silverstone GP,Donington,Thruxton,Brands GP and perhaps Spa,touring car heaven?

[zefarelly]

thats the $m question . . . . .

short answer yes, but FiA is increasingly irrelevant in practice

[terence]

Thats why I said "Properly" policed Zef,scrutineered by very clued up scrutineers.It could be done.

[simon drabble]

have you seen the weather forecast - dont forget the Ambre Solaire!

[James Murray]

But so far as entries are concerned it doesnt matter whether the rules are enforced. If you have the HTP your eligible for the races that cater for FIA cars, ie Masters and U2TC irrespective of whether your car is to the letter of the law. An HSRC car will never be eligible for FIA papers so they're stuck with HSCC.

If the race at Snett this weekend was for FIA cars and was an hour long there would be more entries as the pool of available cars is much greater.

[terence]

And the rose tinted sun glass'es.

[James Murray]

Yes I'm glad my car doesn't have a roof! More of a concern is 3 nights in the truck. Is there hook up for electicity at Snetterton or do I need to take my generator to keep my electric fan going through the night!

[terence]

Originally Posted by James Murray

But so far as entries are concerned it doesnt matter whether the rules are enforced. If you have the HTP your eligible for the races that cater for FIA cars, ie Masters and U2TC irrespective of whether your car is to the letter of the law. An HSRC car will never be eligible for FIA papers so they're stuck with HSCC.

If the race at Snett this weekend was for FIA cars and was an hour long there would be more entries as the pool of available cars is much greater.

Thats exactly the point James,as you say,the pool of FIA cars is larger,therefore I'd have thought there would be more owners willing to enter such a championship.
There are plenty of electricity points to hook up to.I wonder how good the air con is in the SC.

[James Murray]

Surely its a difficult one though because if the HSCC went for FIA cars for example and it was done properly, in order to attract cars they would have to put on longer races to attract entries as currently masters and U2TC races are 1hr I think. Maybe they could follow the Guards Trophy route and have a few 1hr 2 driver races.

[simon drabble]

re HRSR it increasingly shows how marginalized non FIA cars are.... its a long and boring argument where those with non FIA cars will never agree that maybe the FIA owners are correct!!!
The clearest indicator as to demand is that an HRSR 2 litre Alfa has been on the market for over a year yet FIA cars sell pretty quickly (even Sprint GT's which are not that competitive and will never get a Goodwood invite!). Its a great shame that HRSR decided to overturn the decision a few years ago to phase out oversized cars and go down the FIA route but along with MGB's and Spa 6 Hour its a subject that has had more than its fair share of exposure!
We know that we are right Zef!

[terence]

I was thinking more like two hour duration Simon,two drivers compulsory and only up to two litre's.Split over six rounds,I think it could be made to work.Perhaps I'll mail Gow,just to see what he thinks.

[zefarelly]

I don't think soleley FiA is the way forward, but a period correct set of club regs would help alongside

I'm getting a sense of de ja vu

and I'm not listening to CSN&Y!

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

not sure how quick the Shaguar is

The answer is:



Quicker than the driver

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by James Murray

But so far as entries are concerned it doesnt matter whether the rules are enforced. If you have the HTP your eligible for the races that cater for FIA cars, ie Masters and U2TC irrespective of whether your car is to the letter of the law. An HSRC car will never be eligible for FIA papers so they're stuck with HSCC.

If the race at Snett this weekend was for FIA cars and was an hour long there would be more entries as the pool of available cars is much greater.

I'm doing the 3 Hour and had entered the Cortina but decided to pull the entry for the saloons race. Firstly, I was away last weekend at Brands and the family in Moscow will appreciate me flying home on Sunday instead of Monday.

But I am not as willing to run the Cortina with the HRSR cars having spent all I did this winter on a full rebuild. Proper steel front wings are now rarer than hen's teeth as are many other parts. Many of the things in the HRSR regs are designed to reduce cost by allowing freer use of non-App K parts but that means (maybe??) that the drivers have less to risk in damaging a car? Perhaps as it is a championship people are more likely to risk a move than take the gentlemanly approach? Certainly some of the higher profile incidents have dampened the enthusiasm of running a car that has cost so much to prepare.

Also, while App K is not perfect as we all accept, there is some sort of level playing field. And 2 cars of a same engine capacity tend to have a good race together and with others in their class.

To my mind, 2 identical looking Lotus Cortinas racing on track one with 1558cc and to App K and the other 2 litre with 4 wheel discs etc and Mustang beating performance with only a small K on the door of the FIA car to differentiate is not how I see historic motor sport in an ideal world, again my opinion only.

Finally for me, I need to travel a long way to race and so prefer longer races and meetings where I can run a couple of cars over several days.

[terence]

Totally agree Roger,RE the "small K".What doe's Joe public see in a race like that? They think that one car or driver is faster than the other,far better to have two seemingly similar cars having a proper,close dice,much more thrilling for people to witness.

[Colin McKay]

It doesn't matter to joe public whether the cars appear similar or not, so long as they're having a good dice. And it shouldn't matter to the drivers either because they'll both know where the difference lies so there's no loss of face at all. So long as there's a healthy scrap with someone it's always a good race!

[simon drabble]

Colin I disagree.. I dont have a problem with period mods running alongside FIA cars (similar to Zef's recommendation in a previous thread) but when you have a 2 litre Alfa Romeo blasting away it kind of cheapens the race - 2 litre Alfa engines were not even produced until the early 70's!!!!!!
Alternatively let it go completely group 5 and have twin cam Anglia's like they had in the late 60's. The current situation is neither one thing not the other. However I have made my views clear on this before many times so it will become boring to all to repeat!!

[terence]

Totally correct Simon,there will always be one engine builder better than the next,but not to the extent that one similar car gets blown away by another that to all extents and purpose's,should be on a similar performance level.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by terence bower

The weather is supposed to be un-Snet like as well,so dont forget the Sun-Block.

Actually...it might often feel cold at Snett, (not this weekend thankfully), but it is fact that Norfolk Breckland, where the circuit is, is the driest area of the whole of England. From May onwards you will always see the farmers fields around being artificially watered due to lack of rain. The wind can still be biting cold though!