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Old 9 Sep 2013, 08:18 (Ref:3300869)   #551
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Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
If that is true then (about Alonso) then it is rubbish to suggest that he is the best or most complete driver in F1 today. Vettel has more emotional balance (or demonstrated it so far.....) and focussed application as does Kimi, and one or two others with potential in development.

Or are we just seeing someone getting upset about organisational ineptitude within his current employers (assuming that it really exists at Maranello.)
During the interview with Eddie Jordan shown yesterday, Luca di Montezemolo said that Alonso was the best driver Ferrari's ever had. It's possible he was having another of his many 'senior moments', but I did think that was a rather strange comment... given that he's been unable to seal a championship, despite having the biggest budget and arguably the greatest resources available to any driver on the grid right now.

Maybe behind the wheel Alonso is the best - we don't know - but that's only one element of what's necessary in the modern era. I think that he lacks the completeness [i.e. the development capability, the diligence and the organizational nous] of a Schumacher [and possibly Vettel] to be able to shape Ferrari into a championship winning outfit. Obviously Luca di Montezemolo would never come out with something like that... but I think it's fairly apparent to those of us looking in from the outside. For that reason I think Alonso isn't the greatest driver Ferrari have ever had... and as you say, not the greatest of the current crop of drivers we have on the grid today.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 08:43 (Ref:3300881)   #552
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Hang on a minute............

Since joining Ferrari in 2010, Alonso has finished on the podium 40 times and taken 11 victories!

But for Adrian Newey (plus a decent peddler in Raoul Silva), he'd probably be a four times Champion already.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 10:15 (Ref:3300916)   #553
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Hang on a minute............

Since joining Ferrari in 2010, Alonso has finished on the podium 40 times and taken 11 victories!

But for Adrian Newey (plus a decent peddler in Raoul Silva), he'd probably be a four times Champion already.
Absobloodylutely! And this is what really grates Fernando now.

As far as he is concerned the team has gone backwards compared to last year. No progress compared to Red Bull and now he is also having to fight Mercedes and Lotus regularly to boot which dilutes the points available when one car tends to be doing all the winning. Now if another so called top liner joins Ferrari that will likely take even more points off him!!

Fernando must have a clause in his contract that says if the right things haven't happened after 3 years or whatever, then he is free to talk.... about other things....

When Alonso has come incredibly close in 2 of the 4 years, and give his all in the other 2 when they haven't been very strong, why on earth would you want to alienate him?! It must be the old inner politik factor effing everything up again?
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 12:31 (Ref:3300965)   #554
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I seem to recall that prior to the Schumacher era Ferrari always used to run two outstanding drivers.

Villeneuve/Pironi
Arnoux/Tambay
Berger/Alboreto
Berger/Alesi
Prost/Mansell

They didn't win the title for years until Schumacher arrived so maybe that's why they switched to an outright number one supported by a "fall guy".

Two headline drivers kept them away from the WDC for 21 years!
Barrichello was a match for at least Arnoux, Tambay, Berger, Alboreto or Alesi; and I've always thought Irvine was very underestimated.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 18:52 (Ref:3301117)   #555
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Why Ferrari are dicking about with driver selection when all their focus should be on producing a Red Bull equalling car is beyond me.

Do that and Alonso will rattle off titles like shelling peas.

Massa is the perfect foil,fast enough,experienced,very loyal and quite happy to ride shotgun.Why attempt to pair Alonso with Raikkonen....that's just going to compound their problems.

They've already got a Champion in waiting.....just give him the damn machinery!

Meanwhile, RBR have avoided that particular can of worms by sensibly pairing Ricciardo with their Ace.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 19:42 (Ref:3301148)   #556
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Maybe Ferrari go nuts with all the frustration over seasons past and RBR dominance ! Mad italians are dangerous !
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:03 (Ref:3301159)   #557
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Why Ferrari are dicking about with driver selection when all their focus should be on producing a Red Bull equalling car is beyond me.

Do that and Alonso will rattle off titles like shelling peas.

Massa is the perfect foil,fast enough,experienced,very loyal and quite happy to ride shotgun.Why attempt to pair Alonso with Raikkonen....that's just going to compound their problems.

They've already got a Champion in waiting.....just give him the damn machinery!

Meanwhile, RBR have avoided that particular can of worms by sensibly pairing Ricciardo with their Ace.
I'm sure Ferrari are trying to produce a Red Bull equalling car but it might very well be like davyboy says in his post #546, Alonso doesn't spend the time with the team developing the car, or maybe he's not particularly good when it come to helping develop the car. Wouldn't it be ironic if Massa were better at developing the car, which is one reason why he's still there.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:16 (Ref:3301173)   #558
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If Ferrari replace Alonso with Kimi, then Ferrari will probably need a devlopment driver alongside him. I never got the impression that Kimi is the sort of driver who can devlop a car and push a team. To me he is a driver who will tell you the car is whatever and drive it to its full potential.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:19 (Ref:3301178)   #559
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Meanwhile, RBR have avoided that particular can of worms by sensibly pairing Ricciardo with their Ace.
Yep, Ricciardo and Rimmer for 2014!
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:32 (Ref:3301190)   #560
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Massa is the development driver in an underperforming team, what does that say about the development driver?
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:54 (Ref:3301196)   #561
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Yep, Ricciardo and Rimmer for 2014!
Smoke me a kipper.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 20:54 (Ref:3301197)   #562
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Massa is the development driver in an underperforming team, what does that say about the development driver?
It says Ferrari's focus is on Alonso.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 23:25 (Ref:3301246)   #563
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Some important information from my old friend Livio Oricchio :

http://translate.google.com.br/trans...072923%2C0.htm
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 12:11 (Ref:3301450)   #564
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Massa out, Alonso out? Replaced by Raikko and Hulk... Anyone?
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 12:45 (Ref:3301466)   #565
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When was the last season without a Brazilian driver?
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 12:52 (Ref:3301469)   #566
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Some important information from my old friend Livio Oricchio :

http://translate.google.com.br/trans...072923%2C0.htm
That's an interesting article, with Bernie meddling behind the scenes.
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 13:33 (Ref:3301483)   #567
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During the Italian Grand Prix only one person actually challenged Vettel for the lead! A certain Brazilian who made a fantastic start, and almost took the lead at the first corner forcing the Red Bull driver to flat spot his tyres to stay ahead.
Clearly the Red Bull's were the fastest cars, and it took all of Alonso skill to pass Webber and then stay ahead, while Massa also held off Webber until a slower pit stop dropped him behind, but he was always close after that. So if Alonso can't beat Vettel, it is logical that Massa can't beat Webber, therefore fourth place was the best he could achieve. Nothing wrong with that Luca!
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 15:56 (Ref:3301526)   #568
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When was the last season without a Brazilian driver?
1968.

In 1969, Emerson Fittipaldi started to race in F1 at Brands Hatch and since then there were always brazilians in F1. Brazil has 8 WDCs, Emerson (2), Piquet (3) and Senna (3), only behind Germany and UK.
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Old 10 Sep 2013, 20:08 (Ref:3301641)   #569
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http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139148
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