V8 Rules...

[Danielsun]

Notice the title read 'V8 Rules' as opposed to 'V8s Rule'.

I know this has probably been done before, but having returned from Pommyland and witnessed the death of Super Touring and the coming of a new era last year and, more specifically, the racing rules, I can't help but think AVESCO could learn from ToCA.

By that, there are a few things I'd like changed in the V8 Supercar series. In no particular order:

1) Kerb hopping
2) Racing incidents
3) Penalties
4) Excitement levels (or lack thereof)

As regards the last point, the BTCC adopted a formula in 2000 that really works: weight penalties. This would mix up the running order at the front and (hopefully) stop TWR from winning every race in the near future, which on current form looks rather likely.

The rest are open for discussion, but I'd just like to voice my opinion that the penalties 'awarded' to drivers for trivial things like using a kerb or making a key-scratch in a rival's mirror are a bit steep. Touring Car racing is supposed to be exciting, with cars helping others along if they're a bit slower.

Shut up and hurry up, Cochrane...

[RaceTime]

Weight penalties have already been discarded by AVESCO (too draconian - for which read too much like the dinosaurs we race

Actual penalties available are listed in the AVESCO Operations Manual (strange title as it doesn't always operate...) but the real problem is that it is human driven - well Schenken driven - and as we all know, he changes his mind like Simon Crean is a politician first, unionisyt second (hahahaha)

[racer69]

The rules on contact are way too harsh, the drivers are too scared to have a go because it seems if they even rub panels with another car they will be penalised, with kerb hopping, fair enough if they are full on cutting corners, but not if they are only getting two wheels on there which gets them off the ground.

[DNQ]

We NEED these changes to the series

1. Same race format at each round, except for enduros, it's ridiculos that every race has a different format, too confusing

2. Top 10 shootout only. 15 is WAY to much

3. No prequalifying. The slows cars don't qualify. Simple as that

4. Weight Penalties. Yes, worked well in the 2000 BTCC, why not

5. Cost cutting. For eg, ban HRT's new wheel nut system, no every team will get it, that cancles the effectiveness of it for any ONE team, and just ups the cost...

That's all from me...other than that, I see no major problems.

[D.R.T.]

Yeah a 15 car shoot out, doesn't seem to have the prestige of a 10 car one.
I totally agree with weight penalties, but what happens when HRT still win with maxium weight.

[RaceTime]

You increase the maximum weight yet again until they *are* evenly matched.

Either that or the popul;arity of the series starts to wane and they eventually go the way of the ST BTCC

[Crash Test]

Or on the contrary, who would like everyone to have a crack in a shootout, and do away with qualifying?

I'll shut my mouth before somebody steals that idea... arrrghhh

[StuiE]

Originally posted by Danielsun


By that, there are a few things I'd like changed in the V8 Supercar series. In no particular order:

1) Kerb hopping
2) Racing incidents
3) Penalties
4) Excitement levels (or lack thereof)

As regards the last point, the BTCC adopted a formula in 2000 that really works: weight penalties. This would mix up the running order at the front and (hopefully) stop TWR from winning every race in the near future, which on current form looks rather likely.

The rest are open for discussion, but I'd just like to voice my opinion that the penalties 'awarded' to drivers for trivial things like using a kerb or making a key-scratch in a rival's mirror are a bit steep. Touring Car racing is supposed to be exciting, with cars helping others along if they're a bit slower.

Shut up and hurry up, Cochrane...

i agree with all this the v8s with close racing is a joke and i have been wanting all these changes 4 a while

buts thats AVESCO 4 ya

[Crash Test]

1) Kerb hopping
2) Racing incidents
3) Penalties
4) Excitement levels (or lack thereof)
- Do you get 4 by eliminating all rules about 1 2 & 3?

Or is the answer placing random kerbs over the circuit, forming mario-kart styled jumps everywhere? Who wants soft suspension now?

[f1manoz]

Penalties for non-deliberate contact is stupid. I also don't agree with kerb-hopping penalties, unless the driver in question really did gain quite a significant advantage.

Weight distribution has worked in many series across Europe. Why shouldn't it be trialled here?

Where is the incentive to win if you are going to be penalised with weight for doing so. Gees, V8s are the most successful variant we have ever had in this country and you all want to change it.

Back in the Group C days you could count the number of round winners on one hand. Group A wasn't much better and now in the last couple of years . . . how many different round winners? How many different race winners?

As for comparing V8s to other touring car categories. Super Touring in this country is joke, always has been. In 1999 and 2000 one team won every race bar one. Even in its "strong" years we didn't have too many different winners. The most laughable part of all was the so-called support for the category. Nobody went to watch them!!!!

So don't penalise the winners in V8s, get the other "hot shot" teams to lift their game.

[Buckshot]

White Knight - how dare you waltz in here with your measly 27 posts and introduce facts into an arguement when everyone is AVESCO bashing. (Sorry dude I'm being sarcastic - good on ya)

Yes, everybody around here seems to all too much enjoy jumping on the AVESCO bashing bandwagon. They've given us one of the best touring car series the world has ever seen but yet we still like to stick the boot in whenever we can.

It's etting a little old people.

Cheers Buck.

[RaceTime]

They have help re-organise a category into a reasonably successfuly show. What they HAVEN'T done is stop one team from managing to win 90% of races (I suggest White Knight start checking to see just how many races HAVE been won by HRT compared to all others before stating '. . how many different round winners? How many different race winners' - we can STILL count the number of round winners on one hand.

[Buckshot]

Yeah but isn't one team dominating for a few years almost the nature of motorsport ?

F1 is dominated by Ferrari, ALMS by AUDI, V8 Supercar by HRT, and Paul Morris dominated the couple of seasons for that championship his Daddy used to run for him and so on and so on.

Sure, you may get a series like CART which has lots of different winners but PENSKE still won the last 2 seasons they contested.

[RaceTime]

Penske may have won the season but they didn't win 90% of races they contested - they won by being the slightly more consistent team than other consistent teams.

F1 is not really one you can compare to - if you have a look at the dominating teams and wehen they start to wane, it is usually around the time of a major technological change for that team - ie engine supplier, tyres etc (McLaren probably is the exception here at the moment)

However, in Australia, we have had DJR at the front, however, even that has now slipped; Seton (nice guy that he is) has never really been a force in the last 3-4 years; and HRT have grown to the size of having 3 teams under their belt. They have so much in the way of backing that no one, apart from popssibly a fully and unlimited funded Ford team is going to get anywhere near them.

The upshot of this is that *if* they continue to win everything this year (barring accidents) the fans are going to start going off the boil. They do NOT want to see one team winning everything.

[Crash Test]

"Back in the Group C days you could count the number of round winners on one hand. Group A wasn't much better and now in the last couple of years . . ."
- But back in those days, there were very few people who could seriously claim that they were in with a chance, then going back to Grp C days, how many top flight 2 cars teams were there? Agree today is a much better situation, but it is a kind of apples and oranges comparison.

"Where is the incentive to win if you are going to be penalised with weight for doing so."
- Everything in the past which has been thrown at HRT in the hope of slowing them down has failed. Just looking at Adelaide and the GP, nobody came within a cooee of HRT. At Adelaide they were fastest in every practice, qualifying, warm up and race, won the races, and would have had a 1-2 had Bright not choked. And this is supposedly on a track that doesn't necessarily suit their car... plus they promise to go faster when they come to grips with the tyres. My god we're in for a boring season... I know my interest in the category has started to wane in the last 18 months, but then again, I suppose the Harlem Globetrotters are as popular as ever..

"Yeah but isn't one team dominating for a few years almost the nature of motorsport ?"
- This is an utterly stupid statement from me- but there are a good 25 cars out there that should, but won't win a race this year. I'd prefer to see that than 2 cars clean up everywhere. I'm deadset certain every other team out there has their finger pulled out, and with the money available to them, I'd say most teams are performing to their limit.

[jiminee]

Just like to add my opinion. It would be great for some other team to challenge HRT, rather than the other way around, HRT being brought back to the competition but even if they do continue to win the series will still be successful. Why?
I heard that at the Clipsal 500 3/4 of all merchandise sold was from HRT and looking around the track that is not hard to believe, have you ever tried to buy anything with a HRT logo on it? Near impossible.
Now i am a HRT and Brock fan so i may be a little biased but with that sort of following why would AVESCO do anything to halt their progress. It would appeal to many people hear who i would describe as race fans but it wont do much for the masses will it?
Now you may disagree but they are my observations.
Jiminee

[RaceTime]

I don't neccessarily disagree - but you can only sell a teams merchandise to people so many times.

[StuiE]

Originally posted by Crash Test
, but then again, I suppose the Harlem Globetrotters are as popular as ever..

but they r good to watch.......HRT do NOT make the racing better to watch

[jiminee]

"I don't neccessarily disagree - but you can only sell a teams merchandise to people so many times."

(sorry dont know how to add quote)

To me it looked like a competition, everyone had to have the new stuff, which is always just a little bit different. I dont know how much money HRT make from it but it is a good gauge as to team popularity.

[RaceTime]

but they r good to watch.......HRT do NOT make the racing better to watch

Of course they do - in a 32 car field they leave 30 cars to battle out for positions...

(sorry dont know how to add quote)

Two ways - either hit the Quote button above the message and edit out what you don't want to quote, or, highlight the text youwant to quote, use the Post Reply link on the bottom (don't use the quick reply window), click on the Quote button which will be above the window, paste the text into the pop up window that appears and click OK.

Easy really (when you know how )

[StuiE]

hey jiminee, on the right hand side of every post there is a lil icon that says quote, jus click on it

[jiminee]

now i see it thnks guys

[hoffy]

I wouldn't dare say this on the "other" v8 forum, but...

If we did a straw poll of 'serious' v8 fans, I think you'll find that it would be pretty even support between Ford and Holden.

What you see at events like Clipsal, where 80% are wearing HRT gear is the old jumping on the band wagon. Its much the same with Ferrari in F1.

[Vandas]

Just one comment in regards to AVESCO and Tim Schenken.

Those that can, DO. Those that can't, *****!

There is one person in particular within this thread that knows exactly what I am talking about. They also know that it was aimed directly at them.

Sorry for that, I just get annoyed when people constantly analyse and critisise the actions of others, without ever doing anything special themselves.

It is easier to deconstruct someone else's idea, than it is to construct your own.