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Old 16 Feb 2018, 04:41 (Ref:3801745)   #1026
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If we ever needed more prove the WEC basically granted all of Toyotas demands for staying in the series, look no further. This will also serve as a nice incentive for prospective manufacturers as they don't have to worry about competing against the privateers (aka 'also rans') but can slide right into Toyota's shoes when they decide to withdrawn...
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 07:47 (Ref:3801767)   #1027
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Optimistic view: The quote is out of context and doesn't actually mean nobody is allowed to beat Toyota

Pessimistic view: The quote clearly states anyone faster than Toyota will be penalised.

Neither view is wrong. But neither view is actually fact yet.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 07:57 (Ref:3801772)   #1028
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the funny thing in all of this is that, practically, the EoT was approved by Toyota. The point is that they did it wrong! And now they are pushing to pull the Privateers back.

It is ok to have a EoT for so different technologies, but once you set the rule you should not change them during the season. This is unfair. I know the rules say they are allowed to do this, but in my personal opinion this is not fair.

If toyota was so "naive" to let the privateers to have too much performance (and it is not yet sure if this is the case), then they should blame the face in the mirror...

AFAIK, several engineers inside toyota mentioned this problem already some months ago, but the "big heads" simply ignored their warnings...
On the same level, it is simply astonishing to think that Oreca, who practically did a big part of the work in designing and engineering Toyota's cars, can produce its own lmp1 and run against Toyota. They knows toyota's cars extremely good, so they know exactly what they have to achieve to be competitive. But apparently Toyota had no issues in allowing them to build a competitor LMP1, although they had so much data about Toyota's own car...
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 13:06 (Ref:3801796)   #1029
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It's academic anyway. The Toyota's are going to take each other out at Tertre Rouge on lap 1 and one of the Rebellions is going to win.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 14:14 (Ref:3801801)   #1030
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It's academic anyway. The Toyota's are going to take each other out at Tertre Rouge on lap 1 and one of the Rebellions is going to win.
Or it will be like GT1 in 2010 when no-one thought the ancient, slow, forgotten, most of the time unreliable Saleen had chance, but for it's farewell it won when everyone else crumbled out of the way. So by that, CLM it is
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 14:34 (Ref:3801803)   #1031
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Let's recall

2014 best toyota retired because of a mandatory FIA sensor failure that killed electronics system of the car. Issue never happened before and late to anyone.

2016 best toyota retired because of a turbo failure after 23 hours and 55 minutes. Issue never happened before and late to anyone.

2017 best toyota ritired because of a clutch/gearbox failure due a lmp2 walking driver misunderstanding. Issue never happened before and late to anyone.

It's just statistics, another unlikely and bizzare issue will hit them again for sure!

lmp2 overall win almost confirmed to me.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3801805)   #1032
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It's academic anyway. The Toyota's are going to take each other out at Tertre Rouge on lap 1 and one of the Rebellions is going to win.
Only if they - and all the other P1's - can overcome their penalties. Might we see a P2 victory after all?
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 16:43 (Ref:3801845)   #1033
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Only if they - and all the other P1's - can overcome their penalties. Might we see a P2 victory after all?
It's just a hollow ACO scare tactic, you know to hand performance related penalty during the race itself or immediately afterwards, it would look pathetic on global television and press which is why they won't do it.*

Before yes, but not during. Maybe during random 6 hour race they would do because no-one cares but not at LM. They haven't utilized it for LMGTE either even though the system's there too and there's obviously been absurdly laughable sandbagging attempts in recent years, most notably 2016 (although admittedly OEM politics and secret closed door deals play part in that circus)

* yes I know IMSA did this at Daytona this year but that event is baby stuff compared to LM on every level, and it was in the bottom class with least bit of coverage
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 08:30 (Ref:3801956)   #1034
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the funny thing in all of this is that, practically, the EoT was approved by Toyota. The point is that they did it wrong! And now they are pushing to pull the Privateers back.

It is ok to have a EoT for so different technologies, but once you set the rule you should not change them during the season. This is unfair. I know the rules say they are allowed to do this, but in my personal opinion this is not fair.

If toyota was so "naive" to let the privateers to have too much performance (and it is not yet sure if this is the case), then they should blame the face in the mirror...

AFAIK, several engineers inside toyota mentioned this problem already some months ago, but the "big heads" simply ignored their warnings...
On the same level, it is simply astonishing to think that Oreca, who practically did a big part of the work in designing and engineering Toyota's cars, can produce its own lmp1 and run against Toyota. They knows toyota's cars extremely good, so they know exactly what they have to achieve to be competitive. But apparently Toyota had no issues in allowing them to build a competitor LMP1, although they had so much data about Toyota's own car...
Oreca doesn't do any designing/engineering on Toyota's car. That's all Toyota/TMG employees. They do help with logistics and team operation iirc. I think there was a claim they used the TMG windtunnel for the 07 but they denied that. Also, I don't see Toyota saying anything about the rules being unfavorable, can you link to that? Only thing I saw was Conway saying that they'll be down on top speed. I wonder if this article is taking things out of context and has some selective quoting, it sure seems that way. I think privateer lmp1's have had a lot of opportunity in the recent past, but no team put up a serious effort. Rebellion's R-One was not close to any of the hybrid cars, in terms of chassis or engine. They even ran as low as 800kg, 33kg lighter than the new cars will be. I think that changes now there's some seriousness behind these cars that are purpose built.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 09:35 (Ref:3801965)   #1035
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I bet a certain journalist is having a good old chuckle to himself reading all this.

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Old 17 Feb 2018, 09:47 (Ref:3801968)   #1036
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Oreca doesn't do any designing/engineering on Toyota's car. That's all Toyota/TMG employees. They do help with logistics and team operation iirc. I think there was a claim they used the TMG windtunnel for the 07 but they denied that. Also, I don't see Toyota saying anything about the rules being unfavorable, can you link to that? Only thing I saw was Conway saying that they'll be down on top speed. I wonder if this article is taking things out of context and has some selective quoting, it sure seems that way. I think privateer lmp1's have had a lot of opportunity in the recent past, but no team put up a serious effort. Rebellion's R-One was not close to any of the hybrid cars, in terms of chassis or engine. They even ran as low as 800kg, 33kg lighter than the new cars will be. I think that changes now there's some seriousness behind these cars that are purpose built.
Aside 50L fuel tank because of refueling balance reasons, toyota didn't receive any performance handicap, why should they be down on top speed?
the only reason could be that being forced to a single bodywork, they will not be allowed to use a full low drag version of the car for le mans, but despite that, don't think they will be so slow on straight.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 13:41 (Ref:3801996)   #1037
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I bet a certain journalist is having a good old chuckle to himself reading all this.

Yes. Although you could argue that he failed to get any sense of context across to the readership. Perhaps that isn’t the main objective of some journalists? Or maybe people are beyond help when it comes to context.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 13:43 (Ref:3801997)   #1038
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Aside 50L fuel tank because of refueling balance reasons, toyota didn't receive any performance handicap, why should they be down on top speed?
the only reason could be that being forced to a single bodywork, they will not be allowed to use a full low drag version of the car for le mans, but despite that, don't think they will be so slow on straight.
I suspect TF110/Conway meant that they’d be down on top speed relative to the competition, not compared to the previous year.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 14:06 (Ref:3802003)   #1039
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Yes. Although you could argue that he failed to get any sense of context across to the readership. Perhaps that isn’t the main objective of some journalists? Or maybe people are beyond help when it comes to context.
Unfortunately, the main objective now is clicks. Some well-known sites will actually print a headline that's intentionally the opposite of the content of the post in order to get clicks. This is probably no different.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 16:18 (Ref:3802020)   #1040
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Toyota are also again restricted to two main aero kits (one for LM, one for the sprint races). Private teams can change almost as they see fit this season at least.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 17:59 (Ref:3802035)   #1041
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Which is obviously more a theoretical advantage than a practical one - they are privateers after all who are (somewhat) lacking the resources the all-in factories have to their disposal.

Hardly a disadvantage for Toyota imo.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 18:44 (Ref:3802041)   #1042
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I suspect TF110/Conway meant that they’d be down on top speed relative to the competition, not compared to the previous year.
If you talk about simple top speed marked at speed trap, well nothing new; privates don't need to lift off at the end of straights, since 2015 Rone and CLM always marked a better top speed than audi, toyota and porsche
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 19:14 (Ref:3802051)   #1043
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Yes.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 01:09 (Ref:3802086)   #1044
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This season I think we will see some exceptional speeds. I can't remember the last time we saw someone do more than 350kmh. If that's the case this (and next) year, we should be celebrating it. At least they're not trying to dumb down the cars. Even Chiana will like that!
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 09:25 (Ref:3802117)   #1045
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This season I think we will see some exceptional speeds. I can't remember the last time we saw someone do more than 350kmh. If that's the case this (and next) year, we should be celebrating it. At least they're not trying to dumb down the cars. Even Chiana will like that!
2007 351 km/h Audi R10 TDI and Peugeot 908 HDi

Peugeot hit 350 km/h in 2008 too.

I have some recollection of Audi getting close with the R18...?
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 13:16 (Ref:3802164)   #1046
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Pug almost hit it again in 2010 with 348
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 15:37 (Ref:3802189)   #1047
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I thought it was 341kmh/210mph in '07. Outside of Peugeot, I don't think we saw many 340kmh speeds until 2014 or later.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 12:09 (Ref:3802366)   #1048
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Autosport/motorsport.com reporting that Robert Kubica is going to be testing the Manor Ginetta at Aragon. If you recall during the build up to launch of the Ginetta, they touted their use of Williams F1's wind tunnel. The same Williams F1 team that Kubica is contracted to as third driver
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 14:08 (Ref:3802406)   #1049
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ByKolles Racing, SMP Racing and CEFC TRSM Racing in tests at Motorland


ByKolles= 1.18.3
Manor=1.24.8

In french
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 14:42 (Ref:3802413)   #1050
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ByKolles Racing, SMP Racing and CEFC TRSM Racing in tests at Motorland


ByKolles= 1.18.3
Manor=1.24.8

In french
Good to see the teams on the track testing. Hopefully Manor is going to get their head around the car and push that laptime down....
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