[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[S griffin]

I love the way he has had a little more fun than the other ones who are in the sport and he needs to be a happy boy to be able to make the best of the car

[ASCII Man]

I like how some of the other drivers came out of the woodwork to talk down on his decision to ditch the Monaco GP, as if it's some kind of sacrilege, just to stroke their own and their teams/sponsors' egos.

'Oh, I would never even dream of doing this!'
'I did this too, but it was like for totally different and understandable reasons for me, you guys!'
'This is very unprofessional!'
'I don't even understand how McLaren would allow this!'

And so on, and so forth.

It's hilarious, but also pathetic.

I appreciate Alonso's attitude about this, not letting anything that's been said deter him from enjoying this new adventure. Kudos!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I like how some of the other drivers came out of the woodwork to talk down on his decision to ditch the Monaco GP, as if it's some kind of sacrilege, just to stroke their own and their teams/sponsors' egos.

'Oh, I would never even dream of doing this!'
'I did this too, but it was like for totally different and understandable reasons for me, you guys!'
'This is very unprofessional!'
'I don't even understand how McLaren would allow this!'

And so on, and so forth.

It's hilarious, but also pathetic.

I appreciate Alonso's attitude about this, not letting anything that's been said deter him from enjoying this.

I bet few of them could take a totally unfamiliar car/engine/tyre/track/setup combo and bang it into 7th in qualifying against blokes & blokettes who have run these cars for years & years...

[Akrapovic]

Frankly I think some drivers are upset because it suggests F1 isn't the centre of the world. It is insulting to them because it brings them down a bit. He'd rather do something else, something potentially bigger.

I love when drivers drive anything Romain Dumas is another example. Dakar, Pikes Peak, LMP1, LMP2, GT3, etc. If it has wheels he'll drive it. I love that. I'm not an Alonso fan at all but I love when he's doing. I hope he does get the Indy win (but I don't think it'll happen this year - I think he should go do a few years of Indycar) and then go to Le Mans with a LMP1 contract and gets the triple crown. It might kick start others into doing more random events and series.

[BSchneiderFan]

I am avowedly not a fan of the Spaniard, but respect for running Indy and qualifying in the top nine.

[RWill2073]

Those attitudes just prove he was right when he said some of them are happy for him and some of them aren't happy with anything in life. F1 seems to be the most miserable group involved in racing at any level. Alonso hasn't looked as happy as he has this year probably for a decade.

[chunder]

I would guess doing something different and challenging is always going to make you happy.

But I also think if he was struggling more at Indy he would still be enjoying it.

Everyone likes a change and the F1 scene is so incestuous, rabid at times it is no wonder he has had enough.

And also makes you understand why Rosberg quit.

[GTRMagic]

I am sure there is an answer to this somewhere..

.. but in the 1.5L turbo days, Honda V6's were said to be able to be coaxed to upwards of 1,000 bhp in qualifying trim.

The fuel rules are different now, but you would have to wonder what bolting a 30year old jewel into the current McLaren, **** off all that KERS and battery crap, and just run on max boost....

Wonder how that might go?

[ASCII Man]

I would imagine that would go very well.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I am sure there is an answer to this somewhere..

.. but in the 1.5L turbo days, Honda V6's were said to be able to be coaxed to upwards of 1,000 bhp in qualifying trim.

The fuel rules are different now, but you would have to wonder what bolting a 30year old jewel into the current McLaren, **** off all that KERS and battery crap, and just run on max boost....

Wonder how that might go?

One difference being that in the 1980s the engine only had to last one race.

[Adam43]

Or in the case of qualifying one lap!

[BSchneiderFan]

Quite so.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or in the case of qualifying one lap!

In Honda's case, what's changed

[BSchneiderFan]

Slightly off-topic, but if the next generation of Formula 2 cars are going to run blown six-cylinder engines, without hybrids, might a new engine formula for F1 be based on that, tweaked to deliver more power? We know you can get 1,000 bhp+ out of a 1.5-litre, and that was 30 years ago. Or will the manufacturers doggedly insist on hybrid technology?

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Slightly off-topic, but if the next generation of Formula 2 cars are going to run blown six-cylinder engines, without hybrids, might a new engine formula for F1 be based on that, tweaked to deliver more power? We know you can get 1,000 bhp+ out of a 1.5-litre, and that was 30 years ago. Or will the manufacturers doggedly insist on hybrid technology?

Wishful thinking I know, but an equivalency formula between hybrids and non hybrids for options between the two for manufacturers would be cool.

[Kempi]

The reason those engines in the 80s had so much horsepower was highly toxic fuel. There are rumors that the fuel left holes in the tarmac when spilled. It is very unlikely that we will see something like that again.

[ASCII Man]

The rumors that BMW used highly specialized fuels made with components (i.e. toluene) similar to what the nazis used in WW2 for their aircraft and/or rockets has been found to be untrue.

[ASCII Man]

Disregard, they actually did contain up to 80% toluene!
Just the Nazi connection was found to be untrue.

[S griffin]

That's cleared all that saga up, at least we can now no doubt say the title was won fairly

[knighty]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That's cleared all that saga up, at least we can now no doubt say the title was won fairly

But the 80's F1 turbo fuels were highly toxic and carconegenic, there was reports one of the dyno operators at a UK engine builder died due to cancer due to handling it too much.......the re-fuellers at the track would wear fully encapsulating bio-hazard suits.........and in GerHard Bergers crash where his arms got burned.......the fuel on his arms did not actually ignite, it just touched his skin and the acidic nature of the fuel burned his skin away.......truly horrible stuff and it needed to be banned for many reasons

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by knighty

But the 80's F1 turbo fuels were highly toxic and carconegenic, there was reports one of the dyno operators at a UK engine builder died due to cancer due to handling it too much.......the re-fuellers at the track would wear fully encapsulating bio-hazard suits.........and in GerHard Bergers crash where his arms got burned.......the fuel on his arms did not actually ignite, it just touched his skin and the acidic nature of the fuel burned his skin away.......truly horrible stuff and it needed to be banned for many reasons

Sounds like you're talking about Methanol that was used by CART.

[S griffin]

And Berger's fire was after turbos were banned

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by knighty

But the 80's F1 turbo fuels were highly toxic and carconegenic, there was reports one of the dyno operators at a UK engine builder died due to cancer due to handling it too much.......the re-fuellers at the track would wear fully encapsulating bio-hazard suits.........and in GerHard Bergers crash where his arms got burned.......the fuel on his arms did not actually ignite, it just touched his skin and the acidic nature of the fuel burned his skin away.......truly horrible stuff and it needed to be banned for many reasons

This is all quite off topic, but what the heck. I have to say that if we are talking about his 89 Imola crash and fire, if his arms were NOT on fire, then they would have been the only thing in the cockpit that wasn't up in flames! In short, I expect his burns were fully (or nearly) heat vs. chemical in nature. Not to say the fuels back in the day weren't particular nasty.

Richard

[Richard C]

Back on topic...

Various rumors (just rumors) that the more significant update from Honda is still a ways off. A few were speculating Monaco, while a number were thinking Canada. If Honda actually knew what the solution was right after spring testing, they probably should have been able to deliver something around now (or even earlier). But if they didn't know, then it would have pushed the delivery date out. I believe it's probably clear at this point that they didn't know right away what the solution was. Reliable info is hard to find.

They do seem to be making incremental improvements without addressing what seems to be the larger core ICE design issues. Reliability seems to be a bit better and they have extracted some performance. I would expect that a good bit of Monaco performance is down to the base chassis and setup and less about raw power? FP2 has Honda in 10th and 11th with them being ~1.3 seconds back from the front. Sauber looks quite bad in last place roughly 3 seconds off the pace. Mercedes might have a narrow performance window and they may be trying to find that sweet spot for Monaco? Right now they are not much faster than McLaren.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

...Right now they are not much faster than McLaren.

as seen by Button's pass on LH during FP2. great move and even better given the guy hasent raced all year...dont want to get over hyped but this could be a great weekend for Mclaren and Honda on both sides of the pond!

https://streamable.com/xpyk2