IMSA TUSC 2015 Entries, Schedule, and Rumors

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Killing off the "LM auto entry for winning the class " was a mistake too, that could've attracted more people...

While I initially supported keeping the tile intact, I now kinda wish they had just renamed the event Road Atlanta 1000 Miles and be done with it, as there islittle (get it?) Petit Le Mans feel left in it.

That being said, it's still far more like an actual EVENT in itself than the standardized WEC rounds

How long until the call it Lil' Daytona?

Originally Posted by Rcz

I wouldn't mind a p1 NAEC in TUSC running their own championship here, and not really a sanction ACO/FIA event.

I know Audi has been wanting to race the 24hours of Daytona for while and they even consider a Audi powered DP. It's just something they haven't scratch off their list yet. So you know they be there.

However I just can't be a Audi only deal, the other manufacturers would have to join in order for this to work

That would make TUSC perfect in my eyes. Even just Audi is better than the BS they have now.

[Rcz]

But I don't want to see a tech demo, I want to see a race.

Now which p1 besides Audi would come?

Toyota-probably not
Porsche-maybe
Nissan-probably for the first two races for a shake down.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Rcz

But I don't want to see a tech demo, I want to see a race.

Now which p1 besides Audi would come?

Toyota-probably not
Porsche-maybe
Nissan-probably for the first two races for a shake down.

Then watch the other classes! Everyone wins.

[Deleted]

You know I remember watching either Sebring 2012 or '13 live streaming on justin.tv and one user with NASCAR-something on his/her chatroom username title said (while R18 was already utterly dominating after few minutes from the start) along the lines of: why would anyone watch something like this when every car is not running same power and had not equal chance of winning


...
hmm yes ... ...

[Hendrix]

Let's play a hypothetical game using the 2014 season. The COTA round for both series' is on the weekend of Sept. 19-20, Petit Le Mans is Oct. 1-4 and the Japanese round of the WEC is Oct. 10-12. Now, say that they allowed P1 into the NAEC events, there is just no way a team could make that sort of schedule work.

As for those still griping about P1 not being in the USCC.



It's gone, and even if they were allowed full season chances are Pickett would still have shut down the team due to the sale and that would leave us with Dyson (presuming they wouldn't have left to run the Bentley GT3 team).

Also, if I wanted to watch one car race itself, I would watch time trial events.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/te...er-pcs-future/
Some people clearly worried about PC, not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing

while new LMP3 cars would be cool and might reinvigorate the class, it's becoming more apparent that it's not the cars that's the problem, its the amateur drivers.

maybe LMP3 can be the top class in CTSCC...

[Rcz]

No, leave CTSCC out of this.

There does need to be a step below protos, just have them run on there own races.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Then watch the other classes! Everyone wins.

If by "everyone" you mean a handful of ridiculous fans on some forums that don't actually care about racing, and Audi.

Originally Posted by madfast

while new LMP3 cars would be cool and might reinvigorate the class, it's becoming more apparent that it's not the cars that's the problem, its the amateur drivers.

maybe LMP3 can be the top class in CTSCC...

Please no, there is no need to mess with CTSCC. Put a bunch of amateurs in prototypes onto a grid that already has 50 or more cars, and the closing speed between the prototypes and the Honda Civics and such in ST... Sounds like an excellent recipe if you want to run most of the races under yellow.

If they really need to keep a prototype category specifically for amateurs, then they can run with the IMSA Lites instead.

I think really we just need the whole class to go away. If gentleman drivers want to drive prototype-esque cars, they can just jump into the P class and maybe IMSA can have a 4th spot on the podium for the highest finishing pro/am team to stand, like WTCC did with independents. If they want their own class, they can just go back to GTD.

They were a field filler class to begin with, and they are no longer needed, so it's time to start phasing them out. Don't just drop them right away of course because we don't need to screw the current teams, but it's time they start going away.

[chernaudi]

The problem I have with both LMPC and GTC (before it became GTD)is that both were intended, to some degree at least, to be feeder classes into the LMP1/LMP2 and LMGT classes back in the day. But now, GTC has gotten killed off and replaced with the psudo-GT3 GTD class, and say what you will about them being neutered GT3 cars, they put on good racing and there's excellent variety and diversity in the class.

LMPC, much like GTC, wasn't really getting the job done long term as a feeder class. In GTC, I think that Core was one of the main teams to make the jump into GTLM. Level 5 made the jump from LMPC to LMP2, but really, both classes just became quasi-spec classes for pro-am and gentleman drivers to race on the cheap.

I also wouldn't have minded if GTC and LMPC were driver development classes, because they had some success there on that front, but again, it can be argued that at the least LMPC needs to go the way of GTC and get replaced with a class with more diversity of machinery. Or maybe go away completely. After all, GA did have the Jim Trueman championship for pro-am/gentleman driver line ups.

Maybe opening up the restrictors on the LS V8s and giving them traction control and integrating them into the main prototype class can help keep the spirit of the class alive and also allow such cars to be driven by all-pro driver line ups. Hell, the ACO and FIA are allowing all pro driver line ups in LMP2 at the end of the WEC season this year, so I think that having LMPC teams merge into the lead Prototype class and allowing the use of all pro drivers would be a good idea, and open things up a bit with the cars.

The latter is a bit of an issue, though, since though Oreca does say that it's theoretically possible to convert a LMPC to a LMP2 car, teams would probably in the long run be better just to buy a new LMP2 from them.

Also, though I may enjoy Audi using Sebring as a LM test (I consider it a big factor in their 13 LM wins) and watching them race when they can, I'm not so sure that having them figuratively beating the living daylights out of the whole field is even in their best interest.

Now off the LMPC topic for a moment, does anyone think that HPD might be looking for a different gearbox supplier? I know that they still supposedly use Hewland for the gearbox internals, but they've had a lot of transmission failures, including one at WG last Sunday. Could this be something on HPD's end or is the problem with Hewland, since they've had gearbox issues with the TS9 and its derivatives off and on since 2003

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by madfast

while new LMP3 cars would be cool and might reinvigorate the class, it's becoming more apparent that it's not the cars that's the problem, its the amateur drivers.

maybe LMP3 can be the top class in CTSCC...

Name an LMPC issue/contact/crash/yellow-trigger either from practice or the race at Watkins Glen that was caused by an Am driver. Every incident that I saw was caused by the Pro in the car.

-mike

[chernaudi]

Biggest problem for the LMPC cars is that they're basically a few tweaks away from equally DP/LMP2 pace at most circuits. That, and them being the remaining spec class does sort of make them feel out a place now, and the series treatment of the class either is an indication of atrophy on the part of series management, or they don't know what to do with the class as far as it being a long term part of the series.

I say either merge it with prototypes or open up the class and make it a true second tier prototype class. It can't be sustainable with the identity crisis/status it has now IMO.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Name an LMPC issue/contact/crash/yellow-trigger either from practice or the race at Watkins Glen that was caused by an Am driver. Every incident that I saw was caused by the Pro in the car.

-mike

for me the main issue is pc cars holding up the gtlm cars. at the glen, not 20 minutes into the race pat long was flashing his lights like mad trying to get past cheng. even the broadcast talked about it.

[jasonjessica09]

I think I know how to fit both Lime Rock and Mid Ohio in the schdule for 2015. Get rid of Kansas. Make Detroit P/LMPC. Have Lime Rock be GTD only (since it will be in late May or June). To fit Mid Ohio, take the GT cars away from the Indy round and Mid Ohio can be all GT.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Name an LMPC issue/contact/crash/yellow-trigger either from practice or the race at Watkins Glen that was caused by an Am driver. Every incident that I saw was caused by the Pro in the car.

-mike

Yes, that was interesting. Overdriving?

[chernaudi]

There's also been talk of the series asking/insisting that LMPC teams make changes to their cars' set ups. Anyone know of the scope of the changes (I think that DSC mentioned them at Sebring during Graham's rant on that site, but I can't remember anything specific)?

I assume these changes were to make the cars harder to drive (and hence slower due to reduced grip or handling characteristics) and to distance the LMPCs from the LMP2 and DP cars in the Prototype class, since LMPCs were as fast as LMP2s on the shorter tracks in '13.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by madfast

for me the main issue is pc cars holding up the gtlm cars. at the glen, not 20 minutes into the race pat long was flashing his lights like mad trying to get past cheng. even the broadcast talked about it.

well that's a completely different issue and is a part of multi class racing. my car was slow at the start as well and i was in the way of the gtlm cars a little bit but i had no problem letting them through. cheng was even ****ing me off a little too because he was slowing all of us down by driving defensively instead of just letting them by.

of course, IMO, it comes back down to the fact that the LMPC cars are the slowest at the end of the straight which exacerbates the problem. if all the classes had a little top speed separation (not just lap time) you'd see many fewer incidents or frustration leading to issues.

-mike

[MagVanisher]

Why does IMSA have to keep the FLM09 car when they could replace it with LMP3 cars for the PC class? I mean, this is similar to the DP situation in my opinion.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Why does IMSA have to keep the FLM09 car when they could replace it with LMP3 cars for the PC class? I mean, this is similar to the DP situation in my opinion.

As far as I know there are no LMP3 cars in existence yet, they're all on the drawing board and being built for the upcoming years. They're also not designed for endurance racing as far as I know and are more like an IMSA Lites car. Lastly, there's 10 teams in NA that have invested in LMPC, you don't normally age out their cars/investment over night. And what issue is the LMP3 car going to address that the existing LMPC car isn't?

-mike

[Rodger Davies]

Because any time you mandate changing a car, you're introducing a cost, which in the most cost-capped class is a bigger deal.

Means that if they want to make any changes like that, they have to decide and announce it a long time in advance.

[chernaudi]

As mentioned, the LMPC cars (my issue) is that they're basically on an island of their own in reality. Too close IMO in potential performance to not remain in a class of their own, but are dreadfully slow in top speed, yet potential to increase speed and performance is defiantly there.

The LMPC is basically a Courage LC70 with a Chevrolet LS 6.2 GM Performance crate motor in it. It was designed to a budget, but overall one does get a lot of car for the budget, and one that has a lot of untapped potential, too.

The LS V8 is a solid, reliable engine that's very tunable and cheap and easy to tune and maintain. I say give the LS V8 a BHP bump and more aero freedom (dive planes and gurneys) and merge LMPC with the main Prototype class.

Ironically, it'd be a lot easier (and far less costly!) to merge LMPC within LMP2 or TUSCC Prototype than it was to bump up the DPs to match LMP2 lap times as far as performance mods.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

As mentioned, the LMPC cars (my issue) is that they're basically on an island of their own in reality. Too close IMO in potential performance to not remain in a class of their own, but are dreadfully slow in top speed, yet potential to increase speed and performance is defiantly there.

The LMPC is basically a Courage LC70 with a Chevrolet LS 6.2 GM Performance crate motor in it. It was designed to a budget, but overall one does get a lot of car for the budget, and one that has a lot of untapped potential, too.

The LS V8 is a solid, reliable engine that's very tunable and cheap and easy to tune and maintain. I say give the LS V8 a BHP bump and more aero freedom (dive planes and gurneys) and merge LMPC with the main Prototype class.

Ironically, it'd be a lot easier (and far less costly!) to merge LMPC within LMP2 or TUSCC Prototype than it was to bump up the DPs to match LMP2 lap times as far as performance mods.

Never fly, makes too much sense and not invented in Florida.

[Maelochs]

"Ironically, it'd be a lot easier (and far less costly!) to merge LMPC within LMP2 or TUSCC Prototype than it was to bump up the DPs to match LMP2 lap times as far as performance mods."

Much prettier cars, too. (IMO)

Issue is cost. If it is three times as expensive to run P2 (as per Mr. (creeped out by being called Mr.) Hedlund.) If the PCs are upgraded, how many of the teams will have the budgets to run them? On the other hand, how much more sponsor exposure would they get, buried mid-pack in the P-class instead of leading PC. (I am convinced PC drivers wreck because it is the best way to get TV exposure for their sponsors.)

Catch -22. The series has made promises to and deals with PC owners, and doesn't want to screw them over, but the series also would be better off without them---but might need those teams in a season or two if things don't go well elsewhere. Can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em.

There is definitely a place for entry-level prototypes, but is it in the Big Show? On the other hand, would there be enough sponsor money to run if the cars weren't on TV?

P3 makes things even worse. Where would they run? Who in TUSC would lay out money for a P3 if PC just got worked over by TUSC. But how would P3 help TUSC? What would the class bring to the series beside traffic and collisions, which is what PC offers now?

Sorry, I am depressed today. I need to stop posting.

[JLGarcia]

Originally Posted by madfast

it's becoming more apparent that it's not the cars that's the problem, its the amateur drivers.

Originally Posted by madfast

for me the main issue is pc cars holding up the gtlm cars.

Strong take.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by JLGarcia

Strong take.

Well since the 2015 schedule is a topic of this thread let IMSA try to keep GTLM and LMPC apart as much as possible. I propose this:

1. Daytona (All, 24) 2. Sebring (All, 12) 3. Long Beach (P/GTLM, 1 hr 40) 4. Laguna Seca (P/GTLM 2 hr 45 and LMPC/GTD 2 hr)
5. Detroit (P/LMPC, 1 hr 40) 6. Lime Rock (GTD, 2 hr) 7. Watkins Glen (All, 6 hr) 8. Mosport (P/GTLM 2 hr 45 and LMPC/GTD 2 hr) 9. Mid Ohio (GTLM/GTD 2 hr 45) 10. Indianapolis (P/LMPC 2 hr 45) 11. Road America (All or split by red/blue classes, 2 hr 45) 12. COTA (All, 2 hr 45) 13. VIR (GTLM/GTD, 2 hr 45) 14. Petit Le Mans (All, 1000 miles)

[Rcz]

Too bad for all those sanctioning agreements before the mergers, so Kansas is still there probably.

As a Kansan, I wish TUSC was at heartland park instead.

Somebody needs to build more road courses in the Great Plain states.