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Old 14 Jun 2011, 00:41 (Ref:2898501)   #776
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Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
Some of the Austin talk is ridiculous. Its a metro of nearly 2 million people, and is home to some of the largest corporations in the world and one of the top US public Universities. I think the GP would do fine there.

My post relating to the population comparison of Austin to Melbourne was more in assessing the number of taxpayers a loss or subsidy would be drawn from. Given the revenue figures that were projested to be shared amongst the teams over the next 10 years I think we can safely assume that the race will cost double the present figure to sanction by then.
The documents were made available; briefly; by a Texas court under freedom of information laws there. Are they still available?
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 00:58 (Ref:2898508)   #777
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Thank you for starting the thread ujoint I merged the two as we already had an "Austin Grand Prix" thread.. I am sure that everyone will see your links and go to them as they feel they need to..

Divulge at your hearts content..
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 01:04 (Ref:2898510)   #778
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Wait till they see the night life. It ain't Indianapolis ToTo. If that ain't enough there is always... Hey, somethings you just have to find out about by yourself.
It's a wonderful city,very cool people...
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Old 17 Jun 2011, 20:07 (Ref:2901112)   #779
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It looks like Austin taxpayers will not get stuck with making an annual contribution to Bernie's rights fee. According to this article, the state will pay him $25M/year and the promoters will contribute $4M/year. However, this deal still seems confusing. The source of the $25M/year is the state's Major Events Trust Fund and that money can only be formally requested by a city where a ""major event" is taking place. The sponsoring city is expected to put up part of the cost of funding the event. So one is left to wonder exactly how will the deal work. Is it definitely true that the Tavo and Red will be paying the $4m/year and not the city?

New deal for Austin's Formula One calls for no contribution of city funds
Proposed arrangement lets taxpayers off the hook for races, city officials say.
By Eric Dexheimer and Sarah Coppola
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:44 p.m. Thursday, June 16, 2011

City of Austin officials say they are nearing completion of a contract with organizers of the Formula One race scheduled to begin in Austin next summer that would eliminate nearly all local taxpayer support for the event.

The city's new arrangement would not affect the estimated $25 million annual subsidy state officials have committed to providing to support the internationally popular race. But it could deflate concerns of local critics who objected to using city taxpayer money to support the race.

But if approved, the new agreement would have Formula One promoters place an estimated $4 million into a state trust fund account every year for the 10-year duration of the contract.

The local payment is necessary for Formula One promoters, led by Austin's Tavo Hellmund and supported by auto magnate Red McCombs, to leverage a $25 million state subsidy through the Major Events Trust Fund, an economic development program administered by the comptroller's office...

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Old 18 Jun 2011, 00:25 (Ref:2901197)   #780
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Today the temp was 105F ..

The latest construction pics from Austin, they have one year from today to complete the facility...


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-photos/6698//?page=2

They will do it!
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Old 18 Jun 2011, 00:37 (Ref:2901202)   #781
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Today the temp was 105F ..

The latest construction pics from Austin, they have one year from today to complete the facility...


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-photos/6698//?page=2

They will do it!
Looks like Korea did this time last year!
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 17:23 (Ref:2902476)   #782
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Gordon Kirby Interview with Tavo Hellmund:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no291.html
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 23:24 (Ref:2902628)   #783
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Gordon Kirby Interview with Tavo Hellmund:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no291.html
Thanks; a long article, I'll take my time reading it.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 00:10 (Ref:2902639)   #784
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I heard from a friend that worked on the TV crew (U.S. contract employee) at Montreal they were saying that the USGP may be done in conjunction with Brazil later in the year.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 00:11 (Ref:2902641)   #785
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I heard from a friend that worked on the TV crew (U.S. contract employee) at Montreal they were saying that the USGP may be done in conjunction with Brazil later in the year.
That would make a lot more sense...
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 21:03 (Ref:2903128)   #786
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It's time for Tavo and Red to clinch the deal with the State of Texas and get it to commit to handing over $250M over the next ten years to pay most of Bernie's rights fee. So they released a "study" that supposedly shows the "direct economic impact" of the race on the Austin economy. However, as an economist quoted in this article points out (and as I've pointed out above), such "studies" are viewed very skeptically by academic economists.

Study projects large economic windfall from F1 race
By Eric Dexheimer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, June 21, 2011

A Formula One race in Austin next year would generate just under $288 million in direct economic impact for the area, according to an estimate released Monday by promoters of the race. That spending would produce $26.6 million in new tax revenue for the state, according to the study.

The numbers are crucial to F1 race promoters' efforts to secure $25 million in public incentive payments from a state program designed to lure large, primarily sporting events to Texas for their economic development potential...

The study released Monday was written by Don Hoyte, a former economist for the comptroller's office who now runs a company that produces economic impact studies and advises trust fund applicants on how to secure money through the state program...

...Opponents — among them economists — have responded that studies purporting to calculate tax revenue attributable to individual events are imprecise at best and wildly inaccurate at worst.

"I've read hundreds of these things," Craig Depken, an associate professor of economics at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte who specializes in measuring the financial impact of large sporting events, told the Statesman last year. "I don't think I've seen one that wouldn't be panned by economists. They are all very rosy projections."
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 22:07 (Ref:2903166)   #787
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A reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
It's time for Tavo and Red to clinch the deal with the State of Texas and get it to commit to handing over $250M over the next ten years to pay most of Bernie's rights fee. So they released a "study" that supposedly shows the "direct economic impact" of the race on the Austin economy. However, as an economist quoted in this article points out (and as I've pointed out above), such "studies" are viewed very skeptically by academic economists.

Study projects large economic windfall from F1 race
By Eric Dexheimer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, June 21, 2011

A Formula One race in Austin next year would generate just under $288 million in direct economic impact for the area, according to an estimate released Monday by promoters of the race. That spending would produce $26.6 million in new tax revenue for the state, according to the study.

The numbers are crucial to F1 race promoters' efforts to secure $25 million in public incentive payments from a state program designed to lure large, primarily sporting events to Texas for their economic development potential...

The study released Monday was written by Don Hoyte, a former economist for the comptroller's office who now runs a company that produces economic impact studies and advises trust fund applicants on how to secure money through the state program...

...Opponents — among them economists — have responded that studies purporting to calculate tax revenue attributable to individual events are imprecise at best and wildly inaccurate at worst.

"I've read hundreds of these things," Craig Depken, an associate professor of economics at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte who specializes in measuring the financial impact of large sporting events, told the Statesman last year. "I don't think I've seen one that wouldn't be panned by economists. They are all very rosy projections."
In other words you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. .
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 23:46 (Ref:2903215)   #788
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It's time for Tavo and Red to clinch the deal with the State of Texas and get it to commit to handing over $250M over the next ten years to pay most of Bernie's rights fee. So they released a "study" that supposedly shows the "direct economic impact" of the race on the Austin economy. However, as an economist quoted in this article points out (and as I've pointed out above), such "studies" are viewed very skeptically by academic economists.

Study projects large economic windfall from F1 race
By Eric Dexheimer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, June 21, 2011

A Formula One race in Austin next year would generate just under $288 million in direct economic impact for the area, according to an estimate released Monday by promoters of the race. That spending would produce $26.6 million in new tax revenue for the state, according to the study.

The numbers are crucial to F1 race promoters' efforts to secure $25 million in public incentive payments from a state program designed to lure large, primarily sporting events to Texas for their economic development potential...



The study released Monday was written by Don Hoyte, a former economist for the comptroller's office who now runs a company that produces economic impact studies and advises trust fund applicants on how to secure money through the state program...

...Opponents — among them economists — have responded that studies purporting to calculate tax revenue attributable to individual events are imprecise at best and wildly inaccurate at worst.

"I've read hundreds of these things," Craig Depken, an associate professor of economics at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte who specializes in measuring the financial impact of large sporting events, told the Statesman last year. "I don't think I've seen one that wouldn't be panned by economists. They are all very rosy projections."

Bob how many tickets did they sell for Canada? do you know by any chance, or what were the attendance figures for the last three years...
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 02:54 (Ref:2903245)   #789
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Bob how many tickets did they sell for Canada? do you know by any chance, or what were the attendance figures for the last three years...
I don't know the exact numbers, but the race has been officially announced as a sell-out the last three years that it was held (2011, 2010, 2008). News media generally report 100,000 3-day tickets sold each year. In my experience, almost all seats are actually filled for qualifying and practice and, if the weather is nice, most seats are filled for Friday practice. So, in general, race day attendance is 100,000+ and 3-day attendance is about 300,000.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 14:29 (Ref:2904276)   #790
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yup, we aint no Turkey here, or China, or this or that.....
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 21:33 (Ref:2904460)   #791
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I think that for China and Turkey, a large part of the issue is probably the ticket prices for the F1 race itself. Watching the V8 Supercars event from Shanghai in 2005, there looks to be a fair number of people in the main grandstand at least.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 23:43 (Ref:2904530)   #792
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From an auto mag:

Quote:
By ALAN PEASE on 6/22/2011

The saga of Formula One in Austin, Texas, and the under-construction Circuit of the Americas is a plot full of twists and turns worthy of an Alfred Hitchcock movie. And various issues once again took center stage at Tuesday's city council public work session.



The seven-member Austin City Council is on Thursday supposed to vote on whether to endorse the Circuit of the Americas facility--and thereby allow the race promoters to collect the $25 million subsidy offered by the State of Texas via its Major Events Trust Fund. But confusion still reigns.

Austin's mayor, the city manager, the city legal department, a representative of the Texas comptroller's office, six of the seven council members, city staff and counsel for F1 Circuit of the Americas, Richard Suttle, all gathered in the room on Tuesday, but no one seemed able to explain several contentious issues to the satisfaction of those present--and this work session did not even include public input. That comes on Thursday. Tuesday's session was held in an attempt to calm the city council's fear--and, of course, get it to sign on the dotted line.


Among the issues apparently still unresolved: Where, exactly, is the money coming from, and where it is going? At the moment, F1 Circuit of the Americas has offered to pay a $4 million annual figure--for all 10 years of the contract with Formula One Management--which will in turn trigger the $25 million annual payment from the State of Texas, through the City of Austin, to the promoters of the Circuit of the Americas and on to Formula One Management in the U.K.


Lots of other questions remain, such as how much will all of the support services supplied by the city--police, fire, EMS, sanitation, etc.--cost, and who will pay for them? What about the road conditions and capacties out near the track, and transportation in general?


From an on-the-scene scene perspective: In the middle of last week, with no official, notable or major tourist events on the Austin area's calendar, the W Hotel in downtown Austin was at full capacity. Simultaneously, most--and at times all--of the rental cars and parking places at the airport were spoken for. The F1 promoters plan to add 120,000 people to this mix next year, in 100-degree daily temperatures. On Tuesday, a morning news program described major traffic congestion on Interstate 35, which rolls through downtown Austin, as "America's Parking Lot." So it's not hard to see why concerns remain at the local level.


While Austin is home to sold-out seasons of University of Texas football, along with the annual SXSW Music, Film and Interactive festivals for 10 days each March and the increasingly popular annual Austin City Limits Festival, all of these gatherings occur right in downtown, walking distance from many hotels, restaurants and shops.


The Circuit of the Americas track is located southeast of Austin in the same Travis County, but just barely. As of now, there is no public transportation to the track and only one decent two-lane road (FM 812), which will be restriped to accommodate race-day traffic by, (according to the latest plan submitted by F1 Circuit of the Americas), contra-flowing an additional lane, yielding three lanes outbound after the race. Estimates vary as to the length of traffic delays following the race. The promoters cite times "just under three hours," while a county study said it could take more than 12 hours for traffic to clear.


There are the unresolved legal issues, which meeting to meeting have remained unresolved. City of Austin legal staff tried to explain to several skeptical council members the various points of agreement still to be negotiated. But rather than clearing the points up, the explanations led to more confusion.


Council member Sheryl Cole asked whether the city had considered outside legal counsel to help with understanding and preparing for everything involved in hosting an F1 event in Austin, since the city had never attempted an event of this magnitude before.


Council member Chris Riley asked about the track's carbon footprint, whether the race facility will honor "green" initiatives important to the city, and where a plan stands to include bicyclists' access to the event. Another council member even suggested a proposal for a community garden.


Council member Randi Shade was not present at Tuesday's session. Shade is believed to be in favor of F1, though she has not committed one way or the other publicly. Still, her defeat in the regular election held in May triggered a $500,000 runoff election held last weekend in which she was defeated again. Many in Austin believe Shade's defeat was related largely to city development and F1 in particular, since she was backed heavily by development and pro-business money, according to election filings.

Nonetheless, at a brief media question-and-answer period following Tuesday's session, Suttle expressed confidence again. He said he believes that Thursday's city council vote will be in favor of F1, citing the event's positive projected economic impact and his own "natural optimism."

Even if the support measure passes, previously recognized, practical issues remain. On the hotel front alone, several calls and visits on Tuesday to Austin-area hotels and hotel Web sites yielded responses of either "no availability" or "unable to book at this time" for the F1 dates in June next year.


While various estimates of available hotels in the area yield different results depending on who you talk to, the Austin Convention and Visitors Bureau states that there are 5,500 hotel rooms in downtown Austin and an additional 20,500 rooms inside the city limits.

With 120,000 fans potentially attending the inaugural F1 race on June 17, 2012, it's not too early to try and book a room. Hopefully, it's not already too late.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#ixzz1Q3EiOZvJ
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 00:34 (Ref:2904536)   #793
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FR, thanks for posting this article. The writer presents an excellent summary of all the problems still facing the Austin F1 race, now scheduled to take place less than a year from today.

When I read that "As of now, there is no public transportation to the track and only one decent two-lane road (FM 812), which will be restriped to accommodate race-day traffic," I can't get the image of Kramer repainting the lines on his adopted highway out of mind.

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Old 23 Jun 2011, 01:29 (Ref:2904541)   #794
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From the Statesman today 22 June 2011. "Local lawsuit filed against state’s Formula One subsidy". The legal brief filed: http://bit.ly/iBqGWZ. The comments: http://bit.ly/jZRvBJ.

What we have here is: Who's money is it? There will definitely be losers here.

To be continued...

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Old 23 Jun 2011, 13:07 (Ref:2904740)   #795
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FR, thanks for posting this article. The writer presents an excellent summary of all the problems still facing the Austin F1 race, now scheduled to take place less than a year from today.
It's complete insanity they haven't figured out who is paying for it and where the money that gets paid is going (which I may call the Austin City Council and tell them where it's going: Bernie)

Think about this for a second, Bernie won't even talk to you unless the money gets flashed in his face, so whoever did that initial flashing of money has not told the government about the pursestrings required or who in the end is responsible for shortfalls, which is usually a sign the math doesn't work out.

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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:03 (Ref:2904750)   #796
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on the other hand the group building the track believe that one of the purposes of this state event fund is to provide funds to events which will in turn generate enough additional taxes to offset the state's contribution. in an ideal world it will be at minimum a revenue neutral subsidy....this of course remains to be seen.

what we do know is that so far they haven't received any gov't money, yet the owners/developers are still going ahead with construction. i imagine a lot of people have already dug deep into their own pockets to start building something that only has positive implications for motor sports at large in the region. so far all the money which has been spent is theirs and still they get condemned for trying to get access to public money which is only there for events like this. go figure!

one would hope that they have a plan in place to borrow the money in case the state backs out. if their numbers are to be believed (even half believed) then they should have no problem securing the additional funds and in the end may be able to secure a better deal from BE (something comparable to Montreal's sanction fees) because they are on their own and F1 needs a race in the USA.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:21 (Ref:2904752)   #797
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one would hope that they have a plan in place to borrow the money in case the state backs out. if their numbers are to be believed (even half believed) then they should have no problem securing the additional funds and in the end may be able to secure a better deal from BE (something comparable to Montreal's sanction fees) because they are on their own and F1 needs a race in the USA.
No chance of getting a better deal from Bernie now. That ship has sailed.

The way that Montreal got a better deal ($15M/year vs. Austin's $25-30M/year) was to call Bernie's bluff when he tried to triple their rights fee after the 2008 race. Montreal told Bernie they could live without F1 and so they lost the race in 2009.

A year later, under pressure from the teams and the falling popularity of races in nontraditional locations, Bernie realized that F1 needed Montreal more than Montreal needed F1 and so he had to give Montreal the same deal ($15M/year) that it had offered during the negotiations in 2008. I think it's the only time in Bernie's life that he lost a negotiation.

Now that the track is under construction and the investors have sunk a lot of money into it, Bernie has them in his pocket. Presumably, he also has a contract stating that his rights fee will be $25-30M. The exact number is not sure because it's not clear if Bernie gets just the $25M from the state or the $25M plus the $4M from the city or the promoter.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:25 (Ref:2904754)   #798
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It cannot be good news for Tavo when the editor of a major American car magazine like Autoweek warns the city that it is making a big mistake getting into bed with a man like Bernie.

An Open Letter to the Austin, Texas, City Council and the citizens of that fair city

By DUTCH MANDEL on 6/22/2011

As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away...
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:43 (Ref:2904761)   #799
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Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
It cannot be good news for Tavo when the editor of a major American car magazine like Autoweek warns the city that it is making a big mistake getting into bed with a man like Bernie.

An Open Letter to the Austin, Texas, City Council and the citizens of that fair city

By DUTCH MANDEL on 6/22/2011

As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away...
You just don't give up do you?
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 15:27 (Ref:2904785)   #800
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bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
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Originally Posted by ujoint View Post
From the Statesman today 22 June 2011. "Local lawsuit filed against state’s Formula One subsidy". The legal brief filed: http://bit.ly/iBqGWZ. The comments: http://bit.ly/jZRvBJ.

What we have here is: Who's money is it? There will definitely be losers here.

To be continued...
According to some of the comments posted about the Statesman.com article, the Austin City Council is to have a vote on F1 'tomorrow'. These comments were posted on the 22nd of June so the vote is today and its outcome can be followed here:

http://twitter.com/#!/statesmanf1
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