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Old 16 Jun 2017, 07:33 (Ref:3742109)   #76
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
FP1 - 30th. FP2 - 31st. Q - 18th.
All before the accident.

It's true that the accident may be a factor in his results, but my point was that he's also blamed boost, CoG, Aero, slower cars and ride height for his performances too along the way.
It's the comparison against Sutton that I was making at Brands. Plato outqualified him and beat him in Race 1. He would almost certainly have beaten him in race 2 as well given the starting positions.

He has said all those things but he's never said that's the reason and that's the reason alone. They were set to dominate the season before the COG and ride height changes and they would have affected the team (as they have done) regardless of other problems.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3742129)   #77
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But given all of the 'problems' the car has, Sutton has managed to get the car up the front and is a genuine title contender.
They have received a boost adjustment, but every other factor mentioned comes across as whinging just to get a free ticket to the front of the grid.
Sutton has shown that if the chassis is in good order, then it will only be ability keeping the car back.

A lot of things are claimed to be planned over the summer break to fix the problem, ifPlato is not challenging for wins at the next event, then the support within the team must surely come under question?
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 17:33 (Ref:3742273)   #78
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It's the comparison against Sutton that I was making at Brands. Plato outqualified him and beat him in Race 1. He would almost certainly have beaten him in race 2 as well given the starting positions.

He has said all those things but he's never said that's the reason and that's the reason alone. They were set to dominate the season before the COG and ride height changes and they would have affected the team (as they have done) regardless of other problems.
I have no idea about Sutton's testing time over winter, but this was his first RWD outing since his FF days in 2014. He has said himself he was getting used to the car. Plato knew the car and team well, whereas Ash didn't.

Plato can whine and blame outside factors as much as he likes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ash is simply the faster driver. He is without doubt a much better racer, actually being able to overtake efficiently and cleanly. Take Rob Austin at Croft as a case in point. Plato took the whole race and a run to the flag to overtake (and if there was another lap, he wouldn't have passed at turn 1 from there, so things may have played out differently. Perhaps extra boost helped him here). Sutton, with extra ballast, charged up to Plato, drove past him after one lap of tailing him, and proceeded to pass Rob within moments too. There's only one lead driver at BMR, and there's only one with the attitude that could take him reliably to a championship given the competition, and it's not JP.

The way I see it, Plato will be heading off come 2018, no doubt without a star driver alongside so that he can take the credit. I don't think that Scott will be happy for Sutton to make way for an ageing driver who has spent half a year repairing a car only to find out that his teammate is simply the championship contender. Even if they could afford to lose Turkington, with Sutton stepping up, he is surely more of an asset, especially in the current circumstances...?
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3742320)   #79
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I'm not a Plato fan but some of the things being said on here are just plain stupid. The Plato chassis clearly has defects, unless you believe that Sutton is about half a second a lap up on Turkington too (although for some reason I would imagine the Plato-bashers would disagree with this). Sutton may well be a better driver (I personally think Sutton is the most talented driver on the grid currently), but for Plato to be 0.7-1 sec slower a lap than Sutton compared to 0.2-0.4 sec slower than Turkington last year is not just going to be down to driver talent alone.

As others have also pointed out, the signs at Brands Indy, albeit limited, were that Plato was the top Scooby.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 09:40 (Ref:3742485)   #80
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Where has the 0.7-1s figure come from. It has previously been claimed that the gap to Sutton was about 0.5s (a figure given by JP himself).
'I now know why there’s a 0.5 second gap between me and Ash'.
Is it plausible that Sutton could be 0.1s quicker than Turkington was?
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 18:14 (Ref:3743091)   #81
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Where has the 0.7-1s figure come from. It has previously been claimed that the gap to Sutton was about 0.5s (a figure given by JP himself).
'I now know why there’s a 0.5 second gap between me and Ash'.
Is it plausible that Sutton could be 0.1s quicker than Turkington was?
Looking at the qualifying post-Brands, Sutton was 0.8s quicker at Croft, 0.3s at Oulton, 0.5s at Thruxton and 0.6s at Donington (pre-exclusion), so you're correct, I'd just remembered the difference from Croft and assumed it was similar elsewhere so I apologise!

Looking in more detail at last year, the average qualifying delta overall was 0.25 in favour of Turks (excluding the wet/dry Donington session) - however pre-Oulton it was 0.55s (again excluding Donington) and 0.2s from Oulton onwards, although ballast may have swung this in Plato's favour a bit. The average delta this year (excluding Brands) is 0.55s.

That's still a 0.3s difference overall between '16 and '17, although the delta is the same when you just take into account the troublesome start to '16. Perhaps Plato can't drive around problems as easily and isn't as adaptable as other drivers?
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 19:53 (Ref:3743285)   #82
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Take Rob Austin at Croft as a case in point. Plato took the whole race and a run to the flag to overtake (and if there was another lap, he wouldn't have passed at turn 1 from there, so things may have played out differently. Perhaps extra boost helped him here). Sutton, with extra ballast, charged up to Plato, drove past him after one lap of tailing him, and proceeded to pass Rob within moments too. ?
You're forgetting the difference in tyres.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 20:05 (Ref:3743310)   #83
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Perhaps Plato can't drive around problems as easily and isn't as adaptable as other drivers?
I think there may be a lot of truth to this statement. Given a car that is dialled in fully, Plato can put in performances that others can't live with.
His problems happen when the car is carrying an issue, which he struggles to understand. This has come across in some of his interviews this year, where the continued strive to find the problem has come across as clutching at straws.

I can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes within the team where their headline driver is not getting results, but the team seem unable to provide resource to find or eliminate the problem.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 21:16 (Ref:3743439)   #84
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As I recall the MG/888 deal is signed until the end of 2018, so assume they will be back with a couple of cars. Not expecting them to expand beyond 2 cars; they are struggling to run those as it is. Don't know how that is going to work in terms of chassis - surely they can't run the same bent and broken cars for another year, and seems little point in building new cars for one year using an obsolete model.

Agree with BMR down-sizing, although expect them to go down to 2 cars.
Should be 2 MG's and 2 Subaru's.
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 08:36 (Ref:3744301)   #85
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Should be 2 MG's and 2 Subaru's.
Very interesting Thanks.

The next big question is will JP be part of the 2 car Subaru team?

Could quite easily see him striking a deal with Warren to have the 2 other TBL's and disappeared with another manufacturer/team!
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3744365)   #86
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Very interesting Thanks.

The next big question is will JP be part of the 2 car Subaru team?

Could quite easily see him striking a deal with Warren to have the 2 other TBL's and disappeared with another manufacturer/team!
What other manufacturer could give JP a better option than Subaru. The car is obviously capable of challenging for a title in the right hands, if it can be set up properly.
I don't see another RWD manufacturer option, so possibly Toyota?
If so, I expect a concerted effort to see RWD hampered if he goes back to FWD.

That would possibly see the Subara dead in the water as WSR will be FWD soon. Which would pose the question of Warren Scott allowing it to happen if it means he takes away his own competitiveness.
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 15:02 (Ref:3744825)   #87
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Maybe he has lost something. Andy Rouse went on longer than he wanted to and started to lose that pace he once had. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case with Plato, that he's the bit he once had. Or maybe Sutton is driving round the car better
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 18:08 (Ref:3744919)   #88
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What other manufacturer could give JP a better option than Subaru. The car is obviously capable of challenging for a title in the right hands, if it can be set up properly.
I don't see another RWD manufacturer option, so possibly Toyota?
If so, I expect a concerted effort to see RWD hampered if he goes back to FWD.

That would possibly see the Subara dead in the water as WSR will be FWD soon. Which would pose the question of Warren Scott allowing it to happen if it means he takes away his own competitiveness.
what about Plato in a Honda Civic ?

he could go to Eurotech so not to face the tall man
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 18:19 (Ref:3744921)   #89
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what about Plato in a Honda Civic ?

he could go to Eurotech so not to face the tall man
I would be amazed if the Neal's allowed a situation where Plato was permitted to drive a car they built and supplied. The deal with Eurotech would probably be dropped instantly, and I can't see Eurotech wanting to be in that situation.
It would also be a hard sell for Plato to portray it as anything other than a customer team of his biggest rival.
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Old 18 Jun 2017, 19:11 (Ref:3744935)   #90
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I would be amazed if the Neal's allowed a situation where Plato was permitted to drive a car they built and supplied. The deal with Eurotech would probably be dropped instantly, and I can't see Eurotech wanting to be in that situation.
It would also be a hard sell for Plato to portray it as anything other than a customer team of his biggest rival.
There were a few 'other' manufacturers sniffing around in the off season, if someone like JP pitches to them I can see him making a switch. It's either that or getting shown up by Sutton for another year! Mind you JP is probably big headed enough to think that given an 'equal' run at it, he'd beat Sutton, however if he does stay & gets beaten again, it would be harder to get another team 'on side' so he might be caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
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Old 19 Jun 2017, 09:37 (Ref:3745128)   #91
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Maybe he has lost something. Andy Rouse went on longer than he wanted to and started to lose that pace he once had. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case with Plato, that he's the bit he once had. Or maybe Sutton is driving round the car better
As the pinnacle of man – a 49-year-old smoker – maybe Jason could petition for the races to be a few laps shorter.......
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Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:37 (Ref:3745304)   #92
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As the pinnacle of man – a 49-year-old smoker – maybe Jason could petition for the races to be a few laps shorter.......
I thought he gave that habit up prior to the 2015 season?
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Old 20 Jun 2017, 22:17 (Ref:3745617)   #93
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I thought he gave that habit up prior to the 2015 season?
I believe he did. I saw him give an audio interview at Thruxton 2015 and he was pumping away on an electric steam vaping gadget.

Maybe he's back on the death rods now though
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 18:47 (Ref:3752523)   #94
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Maximum Motorsport perhaps departing BTCC ?


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but because of the lack of protection for teams against drivers jumping ship, and the implications afterwards, we would have to seriously look at it if someone wanted to buy our TBL and the Focus
and

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With TCR UK organisers keen to avoid any clashes with the BTCC next season, at least one other team has already opened talks about joining the grid next season although that team – a podium finisher on the BTCC grid – isn’t yet ready to go public with any plans
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 23:25 (Ref:3752635)   #95
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Maximum Motorsport perhaps departing BTCC ?




and


Well, say what you will about TCR, but it's a heck of a lot more affordable for some of the smaller BTCC teams, I wouldn't be surprised if a few made the transition.

Lower level or not, the TCR could represent better value for money for teams which could be bad news for BTCC

I get the TCR UK guys say they don't want to compete, but I can't help but feel it's going to happen wether they wish or not. The market will dictate that one
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 09:23 (Ref:3752724)   #96
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They could just let Team Parker take over the car fully, it would be easier
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3752807)   #97
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Well, say what you will about TCR, but it's a heck of a lot more affordable for some of the smaller BTCC teams, I wouldn't be surprised if a few made the transition.

Lower level or not, the TCR could represent better value for money for teams which could be bad news for BTCC

I get the TCR UK guys say they don't want to compete, but I can't help but feel it's going to happen wether they wish or not. The market will dictate that one
It all hinges on the value.

If the car is cheaper, great, but if the exposure for sponsors is lower, then perhaps not.

Companies sponsor in the BTCC because of the exposure it provides for the money spent. Car cost is one element.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 17:02 (Ref:3752833)   #98
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A lot of it depends on what kind of TV package is TCR going to get, if any at all?
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 17:45 (Ref:3752844)   #99
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A lot of it depends on what kind of TV package is TCR going to get, if any at all?
For the bigger teams certainly. But a small team at the back, with drivers paying for the drive? That could be a lot of cars.

I don't see TCR being on TV other than maybe than motorsport.tv. But streaming is an easy option.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3754405)   #100
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It all hinges on the value.



If the car is cheaper, great, but if the exposure for sponsors is lower, then perhaps not.



Companies sponsor in the BTCC because of the exposure it provides for the money spent. Car cost is one element.


I get your point, my thought was around smaller teams who are less affected by big sponsors, more in it for the racing
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