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Old 10 Sep 2000, 14:27 (Ref:36158)   #1
TimD
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well, the 2000 GP d'Italia was certainly an event. I'm not sure that I could ever be persuaded that it was a classic, or particularly a sporting memory to cherish. But it did crystallise many things for me.

Time was when a serious incident would stop a race. Now that they have the benefit of relatively speedy Mercedes, the GP organisers can use up a full fifth of the race distance on a parade for the cameras, while the circuit workers are put under enormous pressure to sweep away the debris as best they can.

Once upon a time, a man called Ayrton Senna had a very bad accident the lap after a safety car period. I'm fairly certain that his accident was fatal. Certainly more than one theoritician placed the blame on a shard of carbon fibre left on the track after a previous incident. It goes without saying that while drivers were reportedly complaining this afternoon of debris still on the track, the lights on the Mercedes went out, and they were obliged to race through the debris field.

When wheels started falling off modern racing cars, the powers that be assured us that the new tethers they attached to the suspension components would make wheel loss a thing of the past. Now that another incident has seen tyres hurtling down onto corner workers at more than a hundred miles an hour, a reasonable person might believe that the tethers were a failure.

Once upon a time, if an interviewee - in any situation - became upset, the cameras would cease to roll, the hosts of the programme would draw a gentle veil over the proceedings. Now that we live by the almighty god of live television, every sob, every choke is broadcast live for the masses. And the interviewer is obliged to press and press again for some sort of coherent quote for his masters.

Time was, when a badly injured man on the side of a race track was not the picture of choice of a television director. Murray Walker once reported delicately on pictures that he could see, which the BBC producer chose not to broadcast to a Sunday lunchtime audience. Now however, when Sid Watkins is obliged to carry out what looked suspiciously like heart massage, the whole world is looking on.

Once upon a time, Monza was known for a lightning fast, closely fought contest of slipstreaming. A circuit where a second could cover the first six finishers at the line. Not any more. Instead, we have chicanes in place, introduced in the name of safety, so that the accidents, whilst far more likely, can now be conducted at a more reasonable speed.

There was a time when Formula 1 was a motor sport. And there was a time when I was an enthusiast of Formula 1. As with so many things, that time is long gone.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 14:41 (Ref:36173)   #2
Liz
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If there is anybody out there who still believes that Formula One has ceased to be sport and become entertainment, today should at least make you think.

This was not so different from "reality" TV like Survivor and Big Brother. It is cameras poking into places decent people do not go and striving to give the audience the illusion that they are part of the personal lives of the people on the screen - so as to sell more products? - perhaps. But even more to give them the illusion that they are living the pilots' lives.

This is not only happening in Formula One - F1 is merely the worst and most blatant example. In CART they still hold the camera on sobbing pilots well beyond the point where decent men would have shut off the cameras - and the prime example of this was last year at Fontana, when an absolutely barbarian reporter kept trying to talk race strategy to a hysterical Juan Pablo Montoya who had just been told of Greg's death, until Chip stepped in front of him and said "We have NOTHING TO SAY."

Decent people would not let themselves be used this way, and would not support this kind of "reality".

But my guess is that decent people are no longer in charge of Formula One.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 14:44 (Ref:36174)   #3
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Tim, once again you so well crystallize the moment. Thanks for summing it up so well. Today was not one of the spot's better days.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 15:25 (Ref:36195)   #4
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I don't think today was so much from the point of F1 or motorsport or even TV production per se, rather it shows how SOCIETY'S changed even in the past 5 years. It is taking less and less to shock people. Why?? Because we are addicted to watching it, so long as it's from a distance and doesn't affect us in any way. Welcome to the year 2000. God help us all....
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 15:33 (Ref:36198)   #5
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I for one was horrified to see them screening pictures of the medical team working on the marshal. It showed a degree of insensitivity that I have rarely ever seen, and I hope to God that we never have the misfortune of seeing pictures like that again.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 15:59 (Ref:36218)   #6
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I too was shocked that the director showed the paramedics attending the marshal.

As for those tethers, they need to be seriously sorted out immediately.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:08 (Ref:36229)   #7
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At the beginning of 1999, we were assured that the addition of wheel tethers to the cars would have a real impact on the number of flying wheels in accidents.

Evidently not.

It has taken someone being killed to prove just how useless the wheel tethers are.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:10 (Ref:36234)   #8
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You are NEVER going to get a tether that'll hold on those wheels with the enourmous forces put in that accident. They serve their purpose (ie to take AWAY some of that load) To tie a wheel to a car would be more dangerous still: it'd swing back straight into a driver's head. There are NO rule changes taht could stop an accident like that today short of caging-in the track.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:12 (Ref:36235)   #9
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Minardi fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

We have had plenty of evidence now that those tethers don't work - be it because they cause cars to have horrifying spins such as the one which happened to Sarrazin, or they fly off at great speeds killing people.

Tethers are not the solution.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:16 (Ref:36240)   #10
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Preciseley.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:22 (Ref:36246)   #11
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But they work in CART.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:30 (Ref:36249)   #12
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If it works there they should take a look. No shame for them to copy their technology...
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 16:39 (Ref:36251)   #13
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On an oval you hit the barrier more often than not at a glancing angle, pushing the wheel INTO the side of the car. The tether takes no load, the suspension does. This leaves the temporarily slackened tether intact to then drag the wheel along.

In F1, the wheels are more often hit at a more oblique angle ie from the back or front, rather than side. Here the tether, once the suspension snaps, takes the load as the wheel jettisons AWAY from the car: TWWWAAAAAAAAAANNNNGGGGG!!!!!! Tethers are useless in this situation.

Ofcourse they should be kept, however. They do work against concrete walls (not tyre walls, please note. They are hit at a more forwards angle, yes??) where the blow is a GLANCING one, the wheel hit INTO the side of the monocoque. They also take away abouth 5 tons of load in the action of the "TWANGING", so the wheels go far lees far.

THAT is why tethers "work2 in CART, and "are rubbish" in F1.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 17:05 (Ref:36257)   #14
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Dino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Tether-material is the same in CART and F1 IIRC.
Attachement rules widely differ though.
There's no excuse for not improving the insufficient situation as it is now, Tristan.
Frenzie's (the guy seems insane the last races) left front wheel wheel that took off from Barrichello's rear probably reahed a highest point of more than 60 metres - spinning so hard in the air that almost at it's highest point a wishbone was catapulted to the woods left of the track.

There's no way they can control those forces with just a cable - it would have to be almost as thick as a fist - but there are smarter ways of handling it with a damper system with an initial long travel for instance. Turn it into a designing game at some universities and they will come up with better stuff. It's not Chapman's anorexia anymore who dictates how strong something should be, so this is a thing in which the FIA should take measures, regardless of the fact how much extra pounds it adds to the cars.
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Old 10 Sep 2000, 22:44 (Ref:36360)   #15
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
What is the material used for CART suspension components? Is it carbon fibre, or alloy?

The reason I raised the thing about tethers is not that this was avoidable given a strong enough hawser, but that the powers that be decided that their solution was enough without addressing fundamental problems.

The current generation of carbon fibre suspension legs is to blame, I would have said, for a large percentage of the detached wheels of recent years. When hit at an oblique angle, the carbon fibre does not buckle or crumple, it simply splinters and shears clean off. After that initial snap, the tether is on its own in trying to hang on to an errant wheel.

I have in my collection a vivid shot of John Watson being helped out of a smashed Brabham BT45. Both front wheels have been squashed round at right-angles to their natural position, and both are still firmly attached by the wishbones to the monocoque.

The accident that finished Stirling Moss' career in 1961 involved a narrow angle of attack into an earth bank at 160mph. Stirling's Lotus 18/21 was bent banana shaped by the impact and subsequent spin into a ditch, and yet every wheel was still securely fastened to the tub.

It wasn't hitting a wall that killed Ayrton Senna. It was a javelin sharp shard of carbon fibre suspension which came into contact with his helmet.

And yet the powers that be maintain that a wheel tether is the answer.
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 08:44 (Ref:36410)   #16
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Sick of it all...

TimD, your comments represent a concentration of many (worried) thoughts on the issue of F1's recent course. The thing that bothers me the most is the fact that my favourite sport in the world is being turned into an arena, where the gladiators fight every two weeks, and the blood-thirsty audience is there to cheer them on into self-destruction. I mean, I can't help but feel at least a little bit responsible for Paulo Ghislinberti's fate. It's a vicious circle, consisting of people battling it out for money (no, not honour any more), the media conveying "the blood, the sweat, the tears" to the audience, who then go on and buy whatever they are instructed by the sport's sponsors, who, in turn, give more money to their money-making gladiators. And this goes on and on, but for how long? One of the most disgusting by-products (and not only in F1) is the sensationalist behaviour of the media, who begin poking their nose everywhere, just to get a scoop, regardless of the morality (or the lack thereof) of the story. Yes, I know moral is a relative thing these days, after all, the press wouldn't be doing what they are doing if they had no one to sell it to. And that's what it all comes down to - SELL. SELL your product, SELL you dreams, SELL your soul to the Almighty Dollar (or Pound, or Mark, for that matter). The way of the world, people may say. But why doesn't it help me feeling like a right vulture?
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 10:08 (Ref:36420)   #17
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Crashes produce sensationalism

Some of you might think that the best part of F1 is a fantastic overtaking move like the one at Spa. Sadly, Channel 9 in Oz does not think so, and I suppose neither does any other televisor in this world. The intro in Oz shows crash after crash, carnage in F1 to sensationalise the program before it even starts. Check it out - it can be sickening (or thrilling, depending on one's taste). Perhaps, the thought has become :without crashes, without losses of life, our sport will become too tame, too dull. Let's have danger, lets have the drivers risk their lives more so that our adrenelin rushes more and more. Until another of our heroes sacrifices his life to keep the ratings up.
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 10:37 (Ref:36428)   #18
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It's sickening. They didn't have to show the doctor performing cpr. They medics held this sheet in front of him, they didn't do that for nothing. Yet the tv had to peek and show us a guy who's about to die. It's sick.
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 11:33 (Ref:36439)   #19
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I agree whole-heartedly that the whole thing has become very sickening, the coverage and sensationalism is disgusting. But to the point Tim made, and it is something I have long believed - the carbon suspension parts MUST go now. Surely. I don't understand why they didn't go after Senna's death. This garbage about tethers being the answer - another example of "Max knows best"
Surprisingly Stan Piecha. who writes for the Sun of all things, put forward the point that chicanes so close to the start are an absolute danger and not only do not improve safety, but do quite the opposite.
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 12:34 (Ref:36443)   #20
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You could say that pit-stops add to the first-lap risk. Anyone with a light load has to make up as many places as possible in the early laps, which leaves them storming through a packed field of heavier cars which will brake before the charger expects them to.

You could also take ALL the danger away by using simulators, but who would watch it? Definately make it as safe as practical, and keep injuries out of the sport as much as technology permits. I certainly don't want to see injury and death, but motor racing is dangerous by definition, and that has to be a major part of the attraction for drivers, let alone spectators. That's where the adrenaline comes from isn't it?
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 17:43 (Ref:36485)   #21
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I was concentrating on something else yesterday so only read the reports of the race this afternoon when I got home. I am very sad that a marshal should lose his life in this way, my sympathies go to his family and friends, but I am also aware that this, along with my topic about RB and the coverage/hype of his win are connected. The "sport" is run for the media and death, tears (as trivial as they may be to some) are all part of it.

I paraphrase Moseley. "F1 will be more like a soap opera soon. With pit stops and the politics behind decisions being more important to the spectator than the actual racing we will ensure more coverage." Sorry if that's not quite what he said but it certainly is the gist of it.

From what Tim has written it would appear the Moseley is getting his way.
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Old 11 Sep 2000, 20:28 (Ref:36547)   #22
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Very beautiful words about F1's moral regression compared to the honourable past, but I guess Tristan put it in the right perspective. This no-morality, no-respect, only-spectacular-shocks-count principle has taken over all media in the past decade(s) slightly moving towards media participation without limits. News, stories, pics and videos SELL, the more disgusting the better. It's a simple market principle. We watch it in large numbers, they provide it. And those numbers increase when something ugly happens or has happened thus demanding more of that etc.
F1 is no more - it's now a fast version of 'Rescue 911'
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