Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Oct 2016, 21:01 (Ref:3676484)   #51
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
and of 97? because that was the important year
Why '97? The 2 litre Bathurst was a much better race than the V8 race that year. The V8 field simply fell apart and despite fewer numbers the 2 litre race remained competitive to the end.

So it would be difficult to criticise the 2 litre race in respect of the racing. The lack of public support of the event and the general ill will between the two camps definitely deserved close attention.

By '98 it was clear public support was behind be the V8's, despite the 2 litre cars providing arguably the greatest Great Race to date.

And of course '99 was a farce, but not helped by the weather. The whole future tourer concept was flawed and a cynical attempt to get back the V8 crowed by cashing in on the appeal of the V8.
chavez is offline  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 2 Oct 2016, 02:58 (Ref:3676620)   #52
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
Why '97? The 2 litre Bathurst was a much better race than the V8 race that year. The V8 field simply fell apart and despite fewer numbers the 2 litre race remained competitive to the end.

So it would be difficult to criticise the 2 litre race in respect of the racing. The lack of public support of the event and the general ill will between the two camps definitely deserved close attention.

By '98 it was clear public support was behind be the V8's, despite the 2 litre cars providing arguably the greatest Great Race to date.

And of course '99 was a farce, but not helped by the weather. The whole future tourer concept was flawed and a cynical attempt to get back the V8 crowed by cashing in on the appeal of the V8.
thinking you might have some rose colured glasses on regarding the 97 race and its 11 finishes.

But that wasnt the point. it was 97 were Mackay chose sides, which is what the discussion was about
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Oct 2016, 05:09 (Ref:3676628)   #53
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
thinking you might have some rose colured glasses on regarding the 97 race and its 11 finishes.

But that wasnt the point. it was 97 were Mackay chose sides, which is what the discussion was about
I must not have been the only one wearing them.

To quote noted Great Race historian, David Greenhalgh, in The Offical History of the Great Race...."in contrast to the relatively uninteresting race put on by the popular V8s, the much maligned Super Touring category had produced an absolute cracker.."

Of course your mileage might vary.
chavez is offline  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 2 Oct 2016, 05:16 (Ref:3676629)   #54
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
I must not have been the only one wearing them.

To quote noted Great Race historian, David Greenhalgh, in The Offical History of the Great Race...."in contrast to the relatively uninteresting race put on by the popular V8s, the much maligned Super Touring category had produced an absolute cracker.."

Of course your mileage might vary.
As i said, the discussion was not about the race, it was about him taking sides in 97, well before the race even happened.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2016, 01:25 (Ref:3676897)   #55
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
As i said, the discussion was not about the race, it was about him taking sides in 97, well before the race even happened.
Plenty of motorsport figures took sides in 1997, but where is there any evidence McKay took any sides?

Being critical of V8s isn't taking the 2ltr side, because he was criticising the 2ltr's at the same time!
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2016, 02:17 (Ref:3676905)   #56
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer69 View Post
Plenty of motorsport figures took sides in 1997, but where is there any evidence McKay took any sides?

Being critical of V8s isn't taking the 2ltr side, because he was criticising the 2ltr's at the same time!
you asked for evidence but give none to support what you just said
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2016, 03:54 (Ref:3676914)   #57
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Was great hearing McKay on the replay of the 1991 Bathurst 1000 this morning. It was almost like he was involved in motorsport before 1997 - 1999 and enjoyed being of the race and knew what he was talking about.
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2016, 06:33 (Ref:3676926)   #58
anthony81901
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2003
Australia
Sydney
Posts: 1,105
anthony81901 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer69 View Post
Plenty of motorsport figures took sides in 1997, but where is there any evidence McKay took any sides?

Being critical of V8s isn't taking the 2ltr side, because he was criticising the 2ltr's at the same time!
But everybody else (Brad Jones, Paul Morris etc), who backed the 2 litre series moved on once it was over. So if McKay was anti V8, and not supportive of the 2 litre series, he presumably thought something else should have been the premier category. Or was he just one of those who thought everything was wrong, but had no solutions?
anthony81901 is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2016, 08:26 (Ref:3676943)   #59
mayhem
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Aruba
On that Island in LOST.
Posts: 3,219
mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A journo's job isn't to provide answers, it's to ask questions.

Sometimes Peter McKay asked questions that didn't (and still doesn't) appease the V8 Supercars way of thinking.
mayhem is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 03:23 (Ref:3677721)   #60
eduardo1
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Australia
Sydney
Posts: 1,200
eduardo1 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grideduardo1 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grideduardo1 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Just to give context to all of this - there's several phases to this thing with McKay. He's an excellent, experienced and often entertaining motoring writer. Aside from his column, his feature writing for magazines is first class - the sort of thing Phelps and most internet-raised journos today couldn't hope to do.

He's also a very handy driver and competed at Bathurst several times pre-97.

When the split came for the Bathursts - he definitely took sides with the 2L. He saw them as the future and the V8s as on the way out.

To digress slightly - he was half right. He foresaw (as did many) the demise of the Commodore and the Falcon and with the entrenched attitude and regulations of 'must be V8 Ford & Holden' back then, it was not an unrealistic scenario to envisage the accompanying demise of the series, replaced by international imports.

But, V8s prevailed because 2L weren't popular enough to be sustainable and the V8s evolved to survive.

But the antipathy from then on was less V8 v 2L - it was between Cochrane and McKay.

I've written on this forum before that McKay got a rough deal from V8s, but that there came a point when he was so incessantly negative about them that I could see why they wouldn't bother trying to appease him.

It was very personal between TC & PM - a lot more so behind the scenes than it was in print, with many slanderous statements going both ways.

But PM was and is a motoring and motorsport journo first up and he loves the sport and the event. He had a mutual hatred with TC so it was a poisonous atmosphere.

But when TC left, PM let up on the criticisms, was back in the fold and it's all happy families. Criticisms by him are less frequent, more reasoned and also better received by V8s. Because TC, for all his smarts, was rather Trump-like when it came to receiving any criticism. He went for the jugular, regardless of how reasonable the critique was.
eduardo1 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 04:16 (Ref:3677733)   #61
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,572
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo1 View Post
Just to give context to all of this - there's several phases to this thing with McKay. He's an excellent, experienced and often entertaining motoring writer. Aside from his column, his feature writing for magazines is first class - the sort of thing Phelps and most internet-raised journos today couldn't hope to do.

He's also a very handy driver and competed at Bathurst several times pre-97.

When the split came for the Bathursts - he definitely took sides with the 2L. He saw them as the future and the V8s as on the way out.

To digress slightly - he was half right. He foresaw (as did many) the demise of the Commodore and the Falcon and with the entrenched attitude and regulations of 'must be V8 Ford & Holden' back then, it was not an unrealistic scenario to envisage the accompanying demise of the series, replaced by international imports.

But, V8s prevailed because 2L weren't popular enough to be sustainable and the V8s evolved to survive.

But the antipathy from then on was less V8 v 2L - it was between Cochrane and McKay.

I've written on this forum before that McKay got a rough deal from V8s, but that there came a point when he was so incessantly negative about them that I could see why they wouldn't bother trying to appease him.

It was very personal between TC & PM - a lot more so behind the scenes than it was in print, with many slanderous statements going both ways.

But PM was and is a motoring and motorsport journo first up and he loves the sport and the event. He had a mutual hatred with TC so it was a poisonous atmosphere.

But when TC left, PM let up on the criticisms, was back in the fold and it's all happy families. Criticisms by him are less frequent, more reasoned and also better received by V8s. Because TC, for all his smarts, was rather Trump-like when it came to receiving any criticism. He went for the jugular, regardless of how reasonable the critique was.
Agree..
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 05:01 (Ref:3677738)   #62
Average Punter
Veteran
 
Average Punter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Australia
a drug store in Wagga
Posts: 1,661
Average Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Don't you just love it when a considered, sensible opinion such as eduardo's kills a 5 page thread with one post???
Average Punter is offline  
__________________
Punters Beer Fest. Indy 02, Clipsal 03, Winton 04, Paperclip 05, Darwin 06, Oran Park 07, Phillip Island 08, Sandown 09, Townsville 10, Symmons 11, Eastern Creek 12, Winton 13. Townsville 14. Paperclip 15, Sandown 16, Symmons 17, PI 18, The Bend 19
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 05:09 (Ref:3677739)   #63
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Punter View Post
Don't you just love it when a considered, sensible opinion such as eduardo's kills a 5 page thread with one post???
Yeah I don't really know how eduardo gets off posting a measured, sensible post on an internet forum, geez

Unfortunately there's no doubting McKay's pedigree but as far as the V8 racing is concerned, every year his hemorrhoids get worse and worse...
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 06:29 (Ref:3677750)   #64
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Yeah I don't really know how eduardo gets off posting a measured, sensible post on an internet forum, geez

Unfortunately there's no doubting McKay's pedigree but as far as the V8 racing is concerned, every year his hemorrhoids get worse and worse...
Like you said Eduardo's post is measured and sensible.Unfortunately your second paragraph directly contradicts Eduardo's last paragraph.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 06:54 (Ref:3677754)   #65
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
Like you said Eduardo's post is measured and sensible.Unfortunately your second paragraph directly contradicts Eduardo's last paragraph.
Both are also opinions not facts.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2016, 22:32 (Ref:3677966)   #66
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Punter View Post
Don't you just love it when a considered, sensible opinion such as eduardo's kills a 5 page thread with one post???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer
Unfortunately there's no doubting McKay's pedigree but as far as the V8 racing is concerned, every year his hemorrhoids get worse and worse...
Apparently not
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will someone from VESA PLEASE send Peter McKay a Christmas Present?? GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 37 27 Dec 2010 07:21
Peter McKay thirty4 Australasian Touring Cars. 106 7 Apr 2005 01:21
David McKay 1960 ATCC champ dies cavvy Australasian Touring Cars. 11 28 Dec 2004 06:15
McKay confirms Bright FPR deal ? Peregrine Australasian Touring Cars. 17 22 Oct 2004 11:04


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.