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Old 7 Apr 2009, 09:58 (Ref:2435786)   #1
PhaseIII
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Reduction in Fuel Capacity ???

Has anyone else heard the rumour about an imminent reduction of fuel capacity (Tank Size) from 120Lt to 80Lt ???
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 10:04 (Ref:2435791)   #2
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it's confirmed in eNews from Hamilton onwards, some will run new tanks some will modify the current tanks.
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 11:17 (Ref:2435838)   #3
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it's confirmed in eNews from Hamilton onwards, some will run new tanks some will modify the current tanks.
Not from Hamilton - starts at Winton. Otherwise correct for all non endurance rounds. Endurance rounds will stick with 120 litres.
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 12:01 (Ref:2435854)   #4
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Has anyone else heard the rumour about an imminent reduction of fuel capacity (Tank Size) from 120Lt to 80Lt ???
It isn't a rumour. But in the usual interests of cost cutting it adds more cost to the teams.
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 12:08 (Ref:2435859)   #5
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i dont think the intention is to cut costs. the intention is to force multiple pit stops in races. making things more startegic and widining the window to use the new stickier tyres
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 12:47 (Ref:2435884)   #6
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i dont think the intention is to cut costs. the intention is to force multiple pit stops in races. making things more startegic and widining the window to use the new stickier tyres

pecky that looks like you have had more to drink than me.

In this day and age where 90% of changes are to either artificially increase passing or to reduce costs, why would you increase costs by changing fuel tank size. Or did they get the race lengths wrong too.
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Old 7 Apr 2009, 23:34 (Ref:2436321)   #7
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Maybe they are trying to forsee problems with the soft tyre, and forward plan for it. They might not want the F1 style of everyone using the soft tyre at the start of the race to assist with starting/launching grip. Then everyone pitting and changing to the optimum tyre all at the same time.

The smaller tanks, along with the reduced fuel efficiency of E85 means that they will not be able to run long stints anything like last year.

Even with a 120 litre tank, I wonder how Bathurst will be affected? Guaranteed 5 stops for fuel I reckon, and maybe the resultant action would mean drivers will sprint the entire way and never concentrate on fuel mlieage.

I'm surprised they haven't thought of the NASCAR style of introducing a competition yellow flag yet...
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Old 8 Apr 2009, 11:02 (Ref:2436599)   #8
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pecky that looks like you have had more to drink than me.

In this day and age where 90% of changes are to either artificially increase passing or to reduce costs, why would you increase costs by changing fuel tank size. Or did they get the race lengths wrong too.
no i think you interpreted me correctly, except obviusly nothing to do with costs.

they have this new faster tyre but shorter life. they want pit stops so it creates variables and the 120 litre tank got them through the whole 100km race. shrink the tank and now we have to stop and while we are there we can change to the faster tyres or take them off

we can do the same with a 200km race, except prossibly two stops now

this is a good move for pitstop style racing. good for spectators
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Old 8 Apr 2009, 11:42 (Ref:2436622)   #9
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Hmm, these new rule changes (softer tyre, more fuel stops) smell like F1 spirit
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Old 8 Apr 2009, 12:52 (Ref:2436679)   #10
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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I'm surprised they haven't thought of the NASCAR style of introducing a competition yellow flag yet...
Don't say that too loudly, Tony might hear you.

I guess it helps spice up the action as now there may not be a 'fixed' time to use the Sprint tyre- Different teams using it at different times could result in a lot more wild-cards in the field- say if Tander is running around at the back, call him in for a set of the faster tyres, let him run around until he's gained some ground, and hope for a safety car where most of the field will pit and he can change back onto the harder tyre.
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Old 8 Apr 2009, 13:08 (Ref:2436695)   #11
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Not from Hamilton - starts at Winton. Otherwise correct for all non endurance rounds. Endurance rounds will stick with 120 litres.
yeah got my dates mixed up with the updated qualifying, don't know how.

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Don't say that too loudly, Tony might hear you.
yes definatly. if he did that i would personally hunt him down and hit him on the head with something heavy.
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Old 8 Apr 2009, 21:59 (Ref:2437019)   #12
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this is a good move for pitstop style racing. good for spectators
How? It gets pretty hard at the track to know whats going on when you have multiple pit stops. Even on TV they don't explain it properly.
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 03:12 (Ref:2437094)   #13
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this is a good move for pitstop style racing. good for spectators
Reducing the tank sizes to force pitstops in 100km sprints is almost as contrived as the old CPS's

Why do we need every race to have a pitstop. Why not have one race devoid of any outside interference (what is so exciting about position changes being made in the pits??, surely we want to see it happen on the track!), and you can have your pitstops on Sunday in the 200km race.


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Originally Posted by F J Nedos
I'm surprised they haven't thought of the NASCAR style of introducing a competition yellow flag yet
They haven't already introduced them?

Cautions for a flag on the track at Hidden Valley last year? The first caution at Bathurst last year? The times when a car spins and gets going again, yet they still call the safety car out....
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 04:00 (Ref:2437103)   #14
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yes definatly. if he did that i would personally hunt him down and hit him on the head with something heavy.
That type of violence is disgraceful.......and it would only affect someone with brains anyway!
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 04:02 (Ref:2437104)   #15
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How? It gets pretty hard at the track to know whats going on when you have multiple pit stops. Even on TV they don't explain it properly.

yeah sorry i forget that everyone likes simple thing like start and finish, of course then people complain that there boring, but hey its simple

maybe you should try drag racing it probably has the simplicity you desire and it all fits on one camera and doesnt require you to sue your brains to watch

I like strategic races, ones where you have to plan out your race and adapt on the run to what happens. mini bathurst if you like
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 04:11 (Ref:2437107)   #16
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Reducing the tank sizes to force pitstops in 100km sprints is almost as contrived as the old CPS's

Why do we need every race to have a pitstop. Why not have one race devoid of any outside interference (what is so exciting about position changes being made in the pits??, surely we want to see it happen on the track!), and you can have your pitstops on Sunday in the 200km race.




They haven't already introduced them?

Cautions for a flag on the track at Hidden Valley last year? The first caution at Bathurst last year? The times when a car spins and gets going again, yet they still call the safety car out....

my thoughts exactly but TC & his bum buddies think pit stops spices up the racing blah blah blah.
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 05:52 (Ref:2437126)   #17
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pro , you do realise who the bum buddies are that you are talking about

that would be larry perkins for one
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 07:45 (Ref:2437165)   #18
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Why do the turkeys at VESA wait until after the season has started and the cars have been built, to introduce this change??

Why put teams to more expense and changes?

Why don't they just mandate a compulsory pit-stop for the sprint races, if that's want they want to do, rather than make them change to smaller tanks?
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 08:57 (Ref:2437211)   #19
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Now I know I don't own a V8 Supercar, so I don't have to cough up for the fuel tank bits. According to Auto Action, you can put at block in the tank (which has worked fine in many other forms of motorsport) for the massive sum of $500, or if you're scared the block will some how screw the karma of the fuel system, you can get a new tank for $2200.

To put it into perspective, Jamie Whincup blew a $100,000 engine in qualifying for the Grand Prix.

To put it into further perspective, $2200 will get you a couple of tyres, or a helmet, or a couple of cogs in a gearbox, or buy Paul Morris his lunch

The bit that I missed from the pit stops was seeing the crew screw the tyres on as quick as possible... watching the top crews do a 3sec stop was awesome (yet oh so contrived), but now it's a case of "waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting..."
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 09:53 (Ref:2437252)   #20
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pro , you do realise who the bum buddies are that you are talking about

that would be larry perkins for one
sure do and i like Larry and most of what he has to say i agree with and the others i like too but a couple of the decisions of late have been poor. while i'll give them credit for the long races, the control fuel rigs, the "option tyre" and the return of the shootout they are good decisions, as for some of the others i think they are silly.

the qualifying is one but thats been done to death and has it's own thead.

about this fuel tank scenario #1, one minute they are beating on about cutting costs and the rest then they bring in something like this where more money has to be spent. #2, they scraped the CPS to only come up with a rule to artificially force a pit stop.
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 10:23 (Ref:2437266)   #21
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To put it into further perspective, $2200 will get you a couple of tyres, or a helmet, or a couple of cogs in a gearbox, or buy Paul Morris his lunch
Or Garry Rogers budget for the AGP

In all seriousness VESA are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.
Everyone complained when the fuel stops were contrived, so now they change the fuel tanks so they need to stop (still 120ltr for enduro's??). It's a great idea, pity they did'nt announce it 4 weeks ago. Although it would'nt have affected Clipsal or AGP.


Yeah Crash Test I miss the quick wheel changes, especially before the 2 gun rule.
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 10:29 (Ref:2437273)   #22
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theer we go contradicting yourself again Pro. the option tyre is not a cost saving measure, never was. so you like that even though it costs, but smaller fuel tanks which cost not much at all in the scheme of things is bad.

they have always artificially force a pit stop even at bathurst because they have limited cars to a 120 litre tank, surely in pure racing, fuel tank size would be open all they have introduced is a sprint round fuel tank size and an endurance round/street circuit fuel tank size.

and to make the option tyre work properly the cars needed the smaller fuel tanks, otherwise the use of the sprint tyre would be limited. because everyone would just use it at the start of a race. the smaller tank creates the opportunity to sue it mid race as well
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 11:34 (Ref:2437306)   #23
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theer we go contradicting yourself again Pro. the option tyre is not a cost saving measure, never was. so you like that even though it costs, but smaller fuel tanks which cost not much at all in the scheme of things is bad.

they have always artificially force a pit stop even at bathurst because they have limited cars to a 120 litre tank, surely in pure racing, fuel tank size would be open all they have introduced is a sprint round fuel tank size and an endurance round/street circuit fuel tank size.

and to make the option tyre work properly the cars needed the smaller fuel tanks, otherwise the use of the sprint tyre would be limited. because everyone would just use it at the start of a race. the smaller tank creates the opportunity to sue it mid race as well
English, They did not have to do anything, if you have a hot track and go on the softer tyre that will not last.

It comes down to how the track is and the setup of the car.

PS, stop trolling PRO. I remember him under his old user name and he has come along way.
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 11:40 (Ref:2437313)   #24
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its not why we went to to a softer tyre though (im not a fan of the softer tyre based on what im seeing in F1)

We have to have pit stops to use a softer tyre, otherwise it is too much of a handicap

not trolling Pro, but if he wants to debate he can stand on his feet
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Old 9 Apr 2009, 11:47 (Ref:2437320)   #25
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its not why we went to to a softer tyre though (im not a fan of the softer tyre based on what im seeing in F1)

We have to have pit stops to use a softer tyre, otherwise it is too much of a handicap

not trolling Pro, but if he wants to debate he can stand on his feet
It's called strategy, if teams can make an advantage of it then go for it.

It spices the racing up. Yes you are trolling PRO every post I saw before this you were after him. Just argue the point without attacking people.
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