ICAC Inquiry, Well Maybe!

[Casper]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/demand-for...216-1oyra.html

[GTRMagic]

I didnt know Peter McKay worked for the NSW Greens

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I didnt know Peter McKay worked for the NSW Greens

It really does not matter who he works for, if McDonald goes to trial and jail then there will be a lot of fallout to anyone he has helped while he was in govt and there is a very big likelihood he is at least going to trial and incarceration would seem a reasonable assumption. The methods McDonald used to achieve things in this state are all going to be examined in minute detail by half the lawyers in the town, you work out what that means for Homebush. The liberals will play this for everything they can, that is a certainty.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I didnt know Peter McKay worked for the NSW Greens

You would have to be interested GTR in the findings of such a report considering Ian McDonalds involvement?

[GTRMagic]

I am, as always, interested in the truth.

Whether this particular ICAC experience ends up at the truth will be something to watch.

The proponents involved have already been greyed by existing inquiries' findings.. so you would expect that the outcomes will be based on the evidence presented in this case, and not a continuation of other events that appear to have taken place.

As ever, you need to look at two sides.. in a hypothetical world, if an official of an organisation with apparent express authority to do as he says he is able to do.. where is the line drawn if a potentially uncommercial deal is signed off?

Is it the responsibility of the other party to alert their counterpart of all the risks, responsibilities and ultimately political pathways that need to be steered through? Or should they deal in good faith, as would be reasonable to do, and take the commitments on face value?

Somehow you kinda suspect that the Homebush event may just quietly disappear from the calendar in season 2012... to firstly stop some of this noise, secondly stop the continuing unfavourable financial impost on both sides..

A shame.. the venue itself has produced some good races, the facilities are better than many in the calendar.. and it is in Sydney.. biggest city (and market!) in Australia..

We shall see

[Casper]

Nothing has been proven yet. I reckon the Greenies are being fired up by the Libs so they do not appear to be the bad guys but then I have always thought the race was on a short leash once the Libs got in. If the Libs get their way then TC is without a Sydney venue and he will fight tooth and nail to prevent its loss. Unfortunately he may find a lack of pollies who see it his way.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Casper

If the Libs get their way then TC is without a Sydney venue and he will fight tooth and nail to prevent its loss.

Trouble is the government payed to build Eastern Creek and would expect the V8's to run there instead.

Of course if VE$A play hard ball the Bathurst 1000 is held in NSW and the state government can have some fun with them.

[peckstar]

ec was not built for v8's though, it was built for the bikes?

[one five five]

While the bike GP drove the project, Eastern Creek was not built solely for bikes.

Afterall the first event there was a touring car race, and the second event was supposed to be the opening round of the 1991 World Sportscar Championship (until FISA condensed the calendar)

[formerf1champ]

Eastern Creek wasn't built for the V8's...geez......In theory, that would mean it would be the best circuit for an unpredictable race. What would be a circuit built for the V8's?...no, don't answer that.

[peckstar]

i think you have misinterpreted me

maybe i should be clearer,

the Government did not build Easter creek for the V8's, it built it for the bikes, Once the bikes left they virtually gave up on EC

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

What would be a circuit built for the V8's?...no, don't answer that.

I'll answer it. I don't follow instructions well.

Circuits built for the V8s:-
1. Qld Raceway
2. Homebush
3. Hamilton

can't think of any others.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I'll answer it. I don't follow instructions well.

Circuits built for the V8s:-
1. Qld Raceway
2. Homebush
3. Hamilton

can't think of any others.

I don't follow instructions well either - add to that list:
4. Re-drawn Gold Coast street track
5. Hidden Valley
6. Townsville
7. The layout used for Clipsal
8. Arguably the rejuvenated Symmons Plains but could debate that.
9. Canberra street track
10. Possibly the extension at Winton?

Plus of course the various changes to existing circuits in terms of run off areas, upgraded pit lanes/paddocks etc - Bathurst probably being the most obvious one there.

Now I can't think of any others.

[GTRMagic]

Back to the topic at hand for just a moment...

If the stories around the funding of the Homebush event are to be believed, it appears that the contribution from the NSW Government for infrastructure expenses each year as part of the contract with V8SA may or may not have come from a place you might not naturally expect.

It appears that the NSW government's annual cost of staging the Homebush event may or may not have come from within an industry investment and state development portfolio budget.. rather than the expected major events or sport and recreation or tourism portfolio budget..

This may or may not be the significant in terms of the due diligence surrounding a signoff, where a wider view may or may not have been taken on the fullness of the economic impact of the Homebush event, impacts on existing venues operated under the pervue of these departments (i.e. the various athletics centres and the like..) and any other specific state government activity within the Homebush precinct and immediate surrounds

An ordinary person, with such anecdotal thoughts in their mind could possibly consider one of the areas of investigation undertaken by an ICAC inquiry that is yet to be passed by the NSW upper house.

Will an inquiry happen? Who knows for sure..

Except that you wouldnt think that an ICAC inquiry is likely to be able to outright void the existing arrangements between the NSW Government and V8SA. I mean by the time the ICACians meet (presuming they are given the mandate to actually form a committee...), take evidence, muddy their feet in the evidence from all interested parties... you might imagine that most of 2012 will have passed..

.. leaving only one more year left on the deal... Maybe. Perhaps.

Begging the question... "What's the point?"... except to identify if there is any particular wrongdoing by NSW Government officials at the time... who are now likely in opposition, in industry, or part of the silent unemployed...

Whatever the outcome, it is not likely that any such proceedings, should they be approved to occur, shall return any monies to the NSW Government for any unauthorised or uncommercial behaviours.. should they be proven to exist..

It seems however that high level discussions between the NSW Government & authorities within V8SA may or may not have occurred regarding Homebush.

With an interesting possibility as an alleged outcome.

I wonder how the people of Sydney might feel.. about a win-win for both sides, for the possibility of removal of an alleged impost on the NSW Government for the operation of Homebush, and the possibility of removal of what are said to be not insignificant alleged losses for V8SA (and Archer Capital!) for the running of the event.

Imagine... a world where V8SA Events runs a race track at say... Eastern Creek.. that the NSW Government, through what may or may not be its environment portfolio that is the ultimate landlord of the circuit... to take a round of the V8Supercar series in perhaps.. maybe.. 2012.

Maybe as the last event of the year.. with 2013.. to see the event return there.. but for the Indy Gold Coast race to become the last race on the calendar. Mr Cochrane mentioned this as a very real option only a few weeks ago... perhaps in light of discussions that may or may not have taken place at high levels in both groups.

Win-win for everyone. Except the fans.

Presuming any of this is even remotely possible..

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I don't follow instructions well either - add to that list:
4. Re-drawn Gold Coast street track
5. Hidden Valley
6. Townsville
7. The layout used for Clipsal
8. Arguably the rejuvenated Symmons Plains but could debate that.
9. Canberra street track
10. Possibly the extension at Winton?

Plus of course the various changes to existing circuits in terms of run off areas, upgraded pit lanes/paddocks etc - Bathurst probably being the most obvious one there.

Now I can't think of any others.

Oops, i forgot Townsville & Canberra. None of the others were built for V8s, they simply modified or refined something that already existed.

[Oldtony]

The impression among the punters in the Territory at the time were definitely that Hidden Valley was built to get a V8SC round.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by peckstar

ec was not built for v8's though, it was built for the bikes?

Listen you deluded V8 disciple, V8's didn't even exist when EC was built.

You seriously need to understand, Motorsport has existed in the country, long before your Demi-god Tony Cochrane got his grubby fingers on it !

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

Listen you deluded V8 disciple, V8's didn't even exist when EC was built.

You seriously need to understand, Motorsport has existed in the country, long before your Demi-god Tony Cochrane got his grubby fingers on it !

So then if im deluded because im saying it wasnt built for v8's, then you must be saying it was built for v8's, and as you have said they were not around, then might i suggest that you are an extremely messed up individual, or an awesome predictor of the future

Seriusly cranker, PVDA made the call of v8's, and i (along with most people) was able to understand that he was talking about what was/is called touring cars, as in entitled to run in the ATCC. I'm sorry we left you behind on that one. Maybe you need to relax dude, its Christmas

[PVDA]

From memory EC was designed and built for both 2 & 4 wheel racing although pinching the 500cc GP (what's now the MotoGP) off Victoria justified the funding to build it.

Oh, and our then state government dropped the ball and effectively gave the event to NSW.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

The impression among the punters in the Territory at the time were definitely that Hidden Valley was built to get a V8SC round.

It is off topic OT but the funds to upgrade the circuit were given to get a V8 round. The circuit already existed.

[eduardo1]

I'm curious about GT-Rs comments before (although I wish he'd be a little less flowery with his hypotheticals), particularly about the financing.

He's right about the money not coming from Major Events/Tourism - that department knocked back supporting the race and recommended against it to the NSW Govt. They didn't feel the submissions stood up.

Ultimately, the only reason Homebush got the nod was because both Kerry Stokes and John Hartigan personally approached the NSW Premier of the month (so hard to keep up with the revolving door of NSW Labor Premiers), advocating for the event.

But McDonald is seen as the man who brought NSW the V8 street race, so it risks being tainted by association with him, regardless of any actual wrongdoing.

But, while slightly off-topic, the suggestion is that with Archer Capital now in charge and having had a chance to look at the losses incurred by V8SA over Homebush, it may in fact be the V8s that look for a way out of the contract. TC will fight that tooth and nail internally of course - Homebush was his decade long dream. It will almost certainly be there in 2012, but the final year is very iffy.

One of the biggest hints was around the Gold Coast 600 time. TC suggested that the Gold Coast event could be a great season finale, especially as the December date would remove a lot of clashes with other series for co-drivers.

It's a foolish suggestion for a few reasons. One - it clashes with schoolies week. Two, the drivers would go ballistic at the thought of a championship decider being a two-driver event. But, it showed that TC was already thinking about a replacement for Homebush.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by sizzle

It is off topic OT but the funds to upgrade the circuit were given to get a V8 round. The circuit already existed.

Yeah, correct - HV in it's current form (changes were made to the layout - mainly the relocation of the main straight) was built to get the V8 round.

Sorry OT, will stop now.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

I'm curious about GT-Rs comments before (although I wish he'd be a little less flowery with his hypotheticals), particularly about the financing.

He's right about the money not coming from Major Events/Tourism - that department knocked back supporting the race and recommended against it to the NSW Govt. They didn't feel the submissions stood up.

Ultimately, the only reason Homebush got the nod was because both Kerry Stokes and John Hartigan personally approached the NSW Premier of the month (so hard to keep up with the revolving door of NSW Labor Premiers), advocating for the event.

But McDonald is seen as the man who brought NSW the V8 street race, so it risks being tainted by association with him, regardless of any actual wrongdoing.

But, while slightly off-topic, the suggestion is that with Archer Capital now in charge and having had a chance to look at the losses incurred by V8SA over Homebush, it may in fact be the V8s that look for a way out of the contract. TC will fight that tooth and nail internally of course - Homebush was his decade long dream. It will almost certainly be there in 2012, but the final year is very iffy.

One of the biggest hints was around the Gold Coast 600 time. TC suggested that the Gold Coast event could be a great season finale, especially as the December date would remove a lot of clashes with other series for co-drivers.

It's a foolish suggestion for a few reasons. One - it clashes with schoolies week. Two, the drivers would go ballistic at the thought of a championship decider being a two-driver event. But, it showed that TC was already thinking about a replacement for Homebush.

Interesting isnt it... all is not what it appears... again

As for the Gold Coast race, there is no reason it couldnt be moved slightly to ensure it doesnt clash with Schoolies week... what it would offer though would be the series of overseas pilots suddenly available because their regular seasons are finished.

Lets see what happens next

[PVDA]

Is there any reason to have the Gold Coast event in mid to late October??

Perhaps a local can fill us in on what's on in the area closer to the end of the season that might be a blocker to moving the event??

[eduardo1]

The reasoning for the October date is because it's a traditionally quiet time for tourism on the Gold Coast. Therefore, this event (and Indy before it) filled hotel rooms that would otherwise be vacant. It's a very good strategy and a strong reason for keeping the event.

Also, you couldn't run the event much later in October as it takes a week or two to be fully dismantled, then preparations are in place for Schoolies which starts around mid-November until early December. Putting up all the infrastructure etc for that takes nearly as much time as building a race circuit (slight exaggeration).

And if you ran the final race of the year any later than the current first weekend in December, you're potentially running it only 10 days before Xmas, which is just far too late in the year.

Another option might be to run it as a season-opener - most US and European series don't kick off until mid-March so it could help alleviate the driver availability issue, would be a good time of year climate wise (maybe a bit hot) and would provide a similar season launch vibe that Clipsal does.