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Old 28 May 2020, 17:06 (Ref:3978965)   #3851
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I was referring to the aero rule that supposedly handicaps bigger teams alongside the budget cap. It won’t work, so it’s pointless
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Old 28 May 2020, 17:43 (Ref:3978972)   #3852
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F1 has a budget cap and a reduced one at that...so i am happy.

with cars carried over to next season, reduced cap, another year closer to engine parity, and future changes aimed at solving the dirty air problem, i am very excited for the next couple of seasons and genuinely think we will see a more competitive series.

maybe this is the covid talking, but old things being done in new ways, trying to do things in ways that correct the shortcomings of the past...for me thats the new currency of the post covid reality.

and if it doesnt work out, then i will join the complaint department.
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Old 28 May 2020, 18:17 (Ref:3978978)   #3853
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Sure thing. The point is if you take almost all the aero away apart from a moderate size front and rear wing as some propose (so going from 2000+kg downforce @ 250 kph to 300kg downforce @ 250 kph), then F1 will be quite a bit slower than both Indycar and F2... We are talking laptimes 20+ seconds per lap slower!
Surely enough the aero can also be reduced accordingly in F2, so that it is still slower than F1?
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Old 28 May 2020, 19:44 (Ref:3979005)   #3854
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GP2 and F2 have traditionally followed similar but lesser aero than F1, so will probably be the same there
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Old 29 May 2020, 13:00 (Ref:3979153)   #3855
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To improve racing, it is not only necessary to reduce downforce but also to stop cars to converge. A following car has to be around two seconds (!) faster than the one ahead to have any chance for an overtake. This was one major reason for Formula One asking Pirelli to produce the tires they have. This raises two issues: a) the current breed of cars generate an excessive amount of downforce; b) the cars too much of the same.

I believe Formula One should reduce its aerodynamics to a true flat bottom - hence, no diffuser - and single plate front and rear wings. This would enable the legislator to massively deregulate other areas.
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Old 29 May 2020, 13:33 (Ref:3979158)   #3856
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If I want to watch technological perfection with some of the best drivers in the world driving some of the finest pieces of automotive technology at their limit, I'll watch F1 and the WEC. It is possible to admire and/or like them all for what they are, and not wish them to be something else!
The current power-units are incredibly complex but not necessarily relevant and "technological perfection". The current power-units are "mild hybrids" in two separate ways: the so-called MGU-K and the MGU-H. I can only think of two road cars using the latter, one being a so-called hypercar. LMP1 is the only category that allows the same technology, but no even the Porsche 919 had an electric motor to eliminate turbo lag. Instead, the energy recovered by the turbocharger was used to propel the front-wheels by a singe electric motor. That very technology is now used for the Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Yes, the current power-units are true technical masterpieces. But they also embody a missed opportunity. As the regulations effectively force manufacturers to stick with them and hence are too strict in that respect, fresh blood in the form of new entrants is out of reach.
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Old 3 Jun 2020, 13:39 (Ref:3979985)   #3857
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Sorry posted in wrong thread, please delete.
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Old 17 Jun 2020, 15:10 (Ref:3982486)   #3858
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a sensible addition of tokens to promote fairness, for Mclaren to change their engine, and for other teams to do improvements for 2021.

makes sense really. if they do run their cars this year in anger then surely they will learn things and want to make improvements. a couple of tokens would seem, as Brawn suggests, allow for that while keeping an eye on costs so good compromise.

also, apparently one team has a cooling issue with their car?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...brawn/4807652/
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Old 17 Jun 2020, 16:42 (Ref:3982504)   #3859
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a sensible addition of tokens to promote fairness, for Mclaren to change their engine, and for other teams to do improvements for 2021.

makes sense really. if they do run their cars this year in anger then surely they will learn things and want to make improvements. a couple of tokens would seem, as Brawn suggests, allow for that while keeping an eye on costs so good compromise.

also, apparently one team has a cooling issue with their car?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...brawn/4807652/
I read that. My first thoughts were:

1. Practicle solution for those that need to make adjustments in a "frozen" development cycle.
2. Teams will try to game this.

Basically it is a "get out of jail free" card. Problem is, will a team not have a "big" problem and will then use their joker early to try to develop the car. Then later they do have a real problem, don't have a joker and complain and ask for more! I can't seem to find any details on how the this limited token system works. Is there multiple tokens, etc.?

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Old 17 Jun 2020, 17:51 (Ref:3982513)   #3860
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yeah the scope of each token is not really described in great detail nor is the window in which they are allowed to use it.

when i read the article i had just assumed it would be used after the 2020 season and before the start of the 2021 season...basically to mesh with the time frame Mclaren has to change their engine over and that their engine change plus whatever else needs to be done will equal the two tokens...so that could mean a lot of work will be allowed

no doubt teams will try to game the system but i would think the tokens just allow for changes to the chassis/car and not an opportunity to spend over the budget cap?

lot of assumption on my part there.
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Old 13 Aug 2020, 18:39 (Ref:3995265)   #3861
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The FIA is to make changes to the rules to reduce downforce for next season on safety grounds as Pirelli's tyres cannot be changed for next year.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...er-tyre-issues


It would not surprise me for Pirelli to have issues with the 18 inch tyres when they arrive in '22 judging by their general history in F1.


Spa will see an end to the special qualifying engine modes. I wonder how much difference that will make?


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...rom-belgian-gp
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Old 13 Aug 2020, 19:58 (Ref:3995276)   #3862
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The FIA is to make changes to the rules to reduce downforce for next season on safety grounds as Pirelli's tyres cannot be changed for next year.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...er-tyre-issues


It would not surprise me for Pirelli to have issues with the 18 inch tyres when they arrive in '22 judging by their general history in F1.


Spa will see an end to the special qualifying engine modes. I wonder how much difference that will make?


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...rom-belgian-gp
A number of points...

1. This shows how strong of a hand Pirelli has. They basically are forcing multiple teams to adjust aero concepts vs. Pirelli improving their tire.

2. It brings up the topic of the 2020 tire design vs. 2019 design. The article mentions how the teams pushed back against the 2020 design, so the 2020 season is running with the 2019 tires. Maybe this is retribution for the teams pushing back? You don't like the new 2020 tires and want to continue with the 2019 spec? Fine, make changes to your cars for 2021!

3. Frankly I don't think this portends anything regarding the tires for the 18" wheels. However! Final downforce levels for the new 2022 cars is all hypothetical at this point. If they teams miss the window (high or low) for the expected downforce then that may create tire issues. And has Pirelli been able to do enough development/testing with the 18" prototypes?

In short, there is a risk because so much will be changing in 2022. All new technical regulations, new wheels and tires.

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Old 14 Aug 2020, 08:45 (Ref:3995345)   #3863
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I wonder what the main areas of downforce they are going to cut on the car? After them delaying the new rules for 2022, this gives us something to look forward to hopefully in 2021
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Old 15 Aug 2020, 15:38 (Ref:3995576)   #3864
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I wonder what the main areas of downforce they are going to cut on the car?
The floor: they are cutting down the size of the floor and removing the slots.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...-2021/4797628/

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Old 16 Aug 2020, 02:23 (Ref:3995666)   #3865
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The floor: they are cutting down the size of the floor and removing the slots.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...-2021/4797628/
Amazing how that oversized front wing dominates the whole car even from a plan view of the underside.
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 10:43 (Ref:3995703)   #3866
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Indeed, you’d think reducing the size of that wing would be a much better and simpler solution
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 11:42 (Ref:3995712)   #3867
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Indeed, you’d think reducing the size of that wing would be a much better and simpler solution
In my mind, front wing is more complex, so changing it requires more redesign. Also front wing has large impact on over aero and how air moves over the car. I suspect it was expected to be cheaper and less impactfull to the overall aero "concept" to shrink the rear of floor. I assume it is intended to remove downforce off the rear. To rebalance the car, the teams will use existing adjustability in front wing?

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Old 16 Aug 2020, 12:30 (Ref:3995721)   #3868
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Reducing the front wing is one of the most complicated things you can do to an F1 car in terms of current aero, rather than being the simplest.

Every other aero feature on the car is affected by the front wing, including brake ducts and engine flow.

In simple terms, the further back on the car you place restrictions, the easier it is for teams to adopt them quickly.
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 12:59 (Ref:3995724)   #3869
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Reducing the front wing is one of the most complicated things you can do to an F1 car in terms of current aero, rather than being the simplest.

Every other aero feature on the car is affected by the front wing, including brake ducts and engine flow.

In simple terms, the further back on the car you place restrictions, the easier it is for teams to adopt them quickly.
Agree on all points.

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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:10 (Ref:3995759)   #3870
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And tell me how increasing the size of the front wing actually helped?
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:14 (Ref:3995764)   #3871
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And tell me how increasing the size of the front wing actually helped?
Helped what? The larger front wing helped improve lap times.

The downforce reduction is for safety reasons. It's easier to implement if you focus sonewhere other than the front wing.
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:16 (Ref:3995765)   #3872
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It's not really the size it's the overall efficiency of the wing. The size could actually help make it more consistent.

Reduce the efficiency improve the consistency. The size isn't that significant.
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:22 (Ref:3995770)   #3873
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And tell me how increasing the size of the front wing actually helped?
As there is a freeze on car development this season, this video should help explain.

https://youtu.be/XCJTf6E4BbY
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:27 (Ref:3995772)   #3874
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The picture is always muddied by DRS, so we never can tell how much the changes have worked. But increasing the downforce in 2017 definitely did not help
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Old 16 Aug 2020, 15:30 (Ref:3995776)   #3875
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The picture is always muddied by DRS, so we never can tell how much the changes have worked. But increasing the downforce in 2017 definitely did not help
Increasing the car's downforce increases the car's wake and produces more dirty air, making it harder for the car that's following to get close.
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