Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Acid09

That's likely not enough, substantial cost-cutting is needed, not little things.

Flywheel & capacitors have stopped being feasible options anyways, what effect would banning them have? None. What you propose are just cover-ups that basically result in nothing.

Real cost cutting can only be archived by taking incentives for excessive spending on development away. And that means standardized components, among other things.

Agreed, though I'd rather have them standardize the pointless money-pits like aerodynamics, where there really is no transfer to the real world.

Just spit-balling here, but maybe a form of DPi+ would work? Customer chassis (with or without styling cues) and a free power train with one hybrid system. Ideally, I'd also fix a price at which power trains and tech-support must be made available to privateers, but somehow I don't think that's very realistic.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Agreed, though I'd rather have them standardize the pointless money-pits like aerodynamics, where there really is no transfer to the real world.

Just spit-balling here, but maybe a form of DPi+ would work? Customer chassis (with or without styling cues) and a free power train with one hybrid system. Ideally, I'd also fix a price at which power trains and tech-support must be made available to privateers, but somehow I don't think that's very realistic.

I think we only need to go back to what worked just a few years ago.

I remember Peugeot during the Diesel years having quite a small budget for aero development that always caused them to postpone a big update to the original 908, design changes that ended up being the second car four years after the program launch. Which still was remarkably similar to the initial concept.

Even though Audi and Peugeot raced as hard as possible, it just never escalated like it has now, and we need to go back to that. There can be free development among manufacturers with non-spec chassis if the rules are right. It's not like this has never worked in the past.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

cough, cough...

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107659

Coach EP makes a very good point. Albeit, it seems far too subtle for some

Let's not turn this thread into another that is just the same. We've already got one (three?!) on this the topic of P1H.

Thank you.

[Ephaeton]

Adam43 be like

but should try

[Adam43]

[seanyb505]

Photoshopping posts?

[Acid09]

DSC mentions a 14-page (!) feature on Peugeot's possible return in the new Auto Hebdo. Does a French poster have it and can share some details?

[TF110]

Say they return in the next few years. Diesel? Petrol? Hybrid? Maybe the A-H article says something on it.

[Acid09]

Diesel is dead, marketing-wise. With a capital D. No one will be buying a diesel car anymore in a few years time and certainly no manufacturer will spend any money racing a diesel car. It's already automotive history, pretty much.

[Coach Ep]

Rotary!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Diesel is dead, marketing-wise. With a capital D. No one will be buying a diesel car anymore in a few years time and certainly no manufacturer will spend any money racing a diesel car. It's already automotive history, pretty much.

Diesel will only stop being purchased it if becomes uneconomical for the end user. In the UK, we were basically bribed to buy diesel cars as they are taxed significantly lower (ironically, based on emissions). If I'm buying a new car, the two things I'm looking at are fuel mileage, and tax. As long as diesels still come out on top, I'll still buy a diesel.

There are some very good petrol engines out there which are extremely well suited to city driving. The 1L Ford Ecoboost engine is a lovely engine. But if I'm doing 20k miles of motorway driving, most diesels still give me better fuel economy than petrol. Until that changes, or until diesels are banned, people will still buy them.

In the UK, the government has to take some responsibility for this. We were pushed towards buying diesels and now we're going to have them taxed more. It's essentially a scam - "Buy the cleaner car! It's cheaper!" then a couple of years later "Actually we didn't do the research, it's not cleaner, we're going to tax you more, lol soz".

[GT6]

Agree diesel is not dead yet, commercial vehicles etc are still almost exclusively diesel so price is unlikely to raised by massive increases in tax, all those diesel cars currently with zero or almost zero yearly tax and great MPG will also ensure they are around for a long time. I expect changes very soon but but looking to change my current diesel car and choice is obviously effected by MPG and costs so a 200bhp diesel doing 70mpg and zero tax looks much better bet than the equivalent petrol car with 200bhp which is lucky to do 40mpg and costs £200 a year to tax in the uk

[Matt]

Quick question for y'all...is there a maximum width for GTE/GT3 cars? Trying to get scales right for an art/t-shirt project I'm working on. I've already completed the Ford and Corvette, gonna add the BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, and possibly Aston to it, and if they're all the same regulatory width it makes everything so much easier.

[TF110]

Iirc, isn't it 2050mm?

[Matt]

I feel like the M6 is bigger.

[Akrapovic]

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/d...arID=25299&i=2

According to this (not the best source I guess), the BMW M6 is only 1899mm wide. That doesn't seem right to me, but it might be perception.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/d...arID=25299&i=2

According to this (not the best source I guess), the BMW M6 is only 1899mm wide. That doesn't seem right to me, but it might be perception.

It's definitely the tallest GTE car though, so I think we just perceive the massive surface area given by that.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/d...arID=25299&i=2

According to this (not the best source I guess), the BMW M6 is only 1899mm wide. That doesn't seem right to me, but it might be perception.

That's definitely for the street car.

[TF110]

The new Porsche GTE is 2043m at the front and 2048mm rear https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...016-13145.html

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Diesel is dead, marketing-wise. With a capital D. No one will be buying a diesel car anymore in a few years time and certainly no manufacturer will spend any money racing a diesel car. It's already automotive history, pretty much.

Why? If diesel cars still get better fuel mileage than any practical gasoline counterpart, and diesel is cheaper than petrol, then why would diesels die?

To sort of answer my own question, perhaps if you don't have buyers educated in this area, you can't have a large market. Doesn't seem to be much motivation or understanding here in the states so perhaps that is all that is needed to kill them off even if a diesel cost less to own than petrol counterpart. Sometimes the facts don't lead to the fact driven conclusion.....

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Articus

Why? If diesel cars still get better fuel mileage than any practical gasoline counterpart, and diesel is cheaper than petrol, then why would diesels die?

With the recent scandals about emissions, any diesel that properly conforms to emission standards will go up in price, otherwise it'll be taxed into oblivion. So the car itself will end up more expensive anyway.

[Acid09]

Diesel is dead because it will soon be de-facto outlawed in Europe, either by emission restrictions or by taxation that will make buying and driving a Diesel car not viable anymore

Stuttgart is the first major city in Germany to outlaw all but the most modern Diesel cars in their city due to emission problems and more cities will follow, Munich will likely outlaw all Diesel cars in the near future.

Add the VW scandal to that and Diesel's image is simply completely ruined. There's lots of reports from people experiencing that it has become very hard to sell Diesel cars on the second-hand market and most major manufacturers expect that Diesel cars will be extinct from their product lineup within the next 5-10 years.

That's why no manufacturer will start a Diesel-based works program anymore, it's a technology on its way out that no one will spend big money on promoting anymore.

[Akrapovic]

I must be imagining all those brand new Audi A4 and Q6 TDIs on the road. People keep telling me diesel sales are going to die, the cars will be taxed beyond belief etc. Well, we're 1.5 years into the scandle and VW car sales have already recovered and you can't move for brand new Audi A4s and VW Passats around here. Skodas are bloody popular too. But hey, it must be that sky high tax of £0-£30 a year that's doing it.

And since UK car tax is moving to a flat rate for all vehicles, it won't make any difference in the future either.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I must be imagining all those brand new Audi A4 and Q6 TDIs on the road.

Sales numbers don't back it up, Diesel sales are plummeting. In Germany, about a 1/3 of Diesel owners have switched back to petrol with their latest purchase and the city bans will be the final nail in the coffin. Who wants to buy a car that you might not be able to take into any inner city in a few years time?

That kind of uncertainty turns buyers off, because it ruins resale value as well.

[GT6]

In the uk sales of diesel cars are now almost 50% but now below petrol, however larger cars are still almost all diesels so they are going to be around for a while yet, for small city cars petrol seems to be making a big comeback but new cleaner diesels will i think still be the choice for larger executive cars and the long distance rep mobiles.