Kyle Larson Daytona Nationwide Crash

[The Original Instag8or]

Daytona has history, so NASCAR has to race there,

Daytona also has a road course. NASCAR should use it.

[Cynic]

I managed to see a good couple of videos on youtube before they got taken down, and although there is an arguement that pack racing started the accident, I don't think it is really the source of blame here. The #32 car didn't 'tear a hole' in the fence, it hit an access gate in the fence. The engine and front clip ended up wedged in the gap where the gate should have been. Had that been regular fence I don't think we would have seen such catastrophic damage to the #32 and the associated debris ingress into the crowd. Whether or not it would have stopped the wheel from coming off and clearing the fence is a different issue of course.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I managed to see a good couple of videos on youtube before they got taken down, and although there is an arguement that pack racing started the accident, I don't think it is really the source of blame here. The #32 car didn't 'tear a hole' in the fence, it hit an access gate in the fence. The engine and front clip ended up wedged in the gap where the gate should have been. Had that been regular fence I don't think we would have seen such catastrophic damage to the #32 and the associated debris ingress into the crowd. Whether or not it would have stopped the wheel from coming off and clearing the fence is a different issue of course.

From a video I saw in the stands, even so it seems a lot of debris would have ended up outside the fence anyways. So I question why they let people stand down below the stands.

[Purist]

I'm sure the level gate didn't help, but when a car encounters a support post for one of those fences, it's NOT going to be pretty, regardless.

[Bell_End]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I managed to see a good couple of videos on youtube before they got taken down, and although there is an arguement that pack racing started the accident, I don't think it is really the source of blame here. The #32 car didn't 'tear a hole' in the fence, it hit an access gate in the fence. The engine and front clip ended up wedged in the gap where the gate should have been. Had that been regular fence I don't think we would have seen such catastrophic damage to the #32 and the associated debris ingress into the crowd. Whether or not it would have stopped the wheel from coming off and clearing the fence is a different issue of course.

Access gate or not it would of made sweet f**k all difference I say. Also I'm pretty sure when I watched the crash the wheel went OVER the fence.


Interesting piece from Joe on it as well.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...nt-at-daytona/

Some think that hyperbole and sensationalism are essential elements in modern journalism. I don’t go for that. The job is to tell the story correctly, and not soup it up in order to get more people to read it.

You will be able to read all over the web about the incident at Daytona on Saturday, which resulted from a last lap 11-car crash in the NASCAR Nationwide Series race. This resulted in 20-year-old rookie Kyle Larson’s Chevrolet being launched into the air and flying into the debris fencing, above the impact-absorbing “soft” barriers. There is no doubt that one of the wheels, complete with its hub and some suspension parts, was torn off and went over the high debris fence and landed in the crowd. This caused the worst of the injuries. However the extent of the accident was much exaggerated. The impact with the debris fence was unusual in that it took place where there is an access gate in the fencing. This was weak enough to allow the car to penetrate the fence to a limited extent, but enough to mean that it hit the next fencing pillar square on, as a result the rotational forces involved caused the engine, gearbox and the other front wheel to be torn off and forced under the steel cables that run through the fence, as they were twisted upwards by the massive forces involved. These items did not end up in the grandstand, as has been reported, but rather right next to the fence in front of the first row of seats. The injuries that did occur were caused by large amounts of smaller parts that showered the crowd. An overall assessment of the accident will probably conclude that the fence did exactly what it was supposed to do and that the only real problems were the access gate and the flying wheel.

Reports of the number of injured were also exaggerated because the local hospital told reporters the total of people treated during the DAY, the majority of whom were suffering from sunstroke. As far as I can ascertain, 14 people were treated at the circuit medical centre and seven more serious injuries were taken to the Halifax Urgent Care Center in Port Orange. Two of these were in a critical condition, including one man with a life-threatening head injury.

Racing learns from each accident and there will no doubt be changes made in the future to ensure that weak spots in the protection, such as access gates, are dealt with accordingly. The question of flying wheels remains difficult because wheel tethers can only absorb so much of an impact without ripping out their mountings.

[Purist]

One thing I haven't said yet, but that I have started to wonder, is whether the fences are less "springy" than they used to be. Having a vehicle sent back out into the middle of the fray isn't the best case scenario, but it seems likely that it would be preferable to having the vehicle running along that cheese-grater fencing for an extended period of time.

[Paradise City]

The wheel went over the fence at an arc away from the main wreck and hit what I initially thought was the crowd. On second viewing it hit before the crowd although what direction it then bounced wasn't sighted via the camera.

There's no known fence that will prevent a shrapnel shower outright in the event of an accident like that, it can only mitigate things.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Purist

One thing I haven't said yet, but that I have started to wonder, is whether the fences are less "springy" than they used to be. Having a vehicle sent back out into the middle of the fray isn't the best case scenario, but it seems likely that it would be preferable to having the vehicle running along that cheese-grater fencing for an extended period of time.

The one video, which is the network coverage where they switch to a camera on the fence downtrack from the accident and start/finish, captures the shock going through the fence structure. I don't think any other car hit the fence downtrack, I think it the fact that the structure is tied together with heavy steel cables that are strung very tightly. One big long structure. I think if you allow too much penetration would seemingly cause the car to dig in and then whip around, potentially then throwing more debris. I don't know the answer.

I almost made the bad taste joke the other day that pack racing was taking place on the area interstates as the lawyers all jumped in their cars headed to Daytona. My Central Florida local news has a story about one lawyer already involved...

I believe Daytona and ISC take these things very seriously, and have for years. They monitor, test, research. I don't know if building codes apply to something like the catch fence, since that is something not normal to building construction. The government may not be involved in administration of something like that. I don't know. I don't "hate" government, but I can't believe that government would be ahead of Nascar's research.

[MJ_N_09]

3 fans are seeking a lawsuit: http://news.yahoo.com/fans-injured-n...8559--spt.html

[Paradise City]

NASCAR are very strong on safety and noone is forced to attend these races. Like most corporations, they are safe really to cover their own backsides rather than that they are a swell bunch of guys but they are quite strong nevertheless. As long as the dangers in attending are stressed, NASCAR continues to plug the holes that arise and remain vigilant in relation to safety and research, they are doing what they should be doing. Perhaps fans with families need to think a little about where they get their seats with the big speedways i.e not in the front row.

[Purist]

I have to disagree, I'm afraid. NASCAR was slow in 2000-2001, and there were costs to that (four driver fatalities, plus the Bodine truck incident at Daytona). And I can't imagine it came totally out of the blue; there had to be warning signs in the years previous to when the "stuff" finally hit the fan. Also, the restrictor plates weren't supposed to be permanent, and how long have they been in place without a "permanent solution"?

As for the fence itself, I think it's a matter of degree. For example, in an earthquake, you DON'T want Tacoma Narrows (WAY too flexible), but neither do you want San Francisco Bay East Bridge (too rigid).

As for the fan situation, that really doesn't work in practice. The debris thing simply isn't an issue, until it is, because of its relative infrequency. It's like with airline pilots, and emergency situations. Flight crews often don't quite know, or don't know at all, what to do in that moment when something happens, and the autopilot disengages, dumping the situation in their laps. The autopilot does most of the flying, whereas, the human pilots really NEED to be actively flying EVERY DAY to be properly engrained with what must happen in an abnormal situation.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Purist

I have to disagree, I'm afraid. NASCAR was slow in 2000-2001, and there were costs to that (four driver fatalities, plus the Bodine truck incident at Daytona). And I can't imagine it came totally out of the blue; there had to be warning signs in the years previous to when the "stuff" finally hit the fan. Also, the restrictor plates weren't supposed to be permanent, and how long have they been in place without a "permanent solution"?

As for the fence itself, I think it's a matter of degree. For example, in an earthquake, you DON'T want Tacoma Narrows (WAY too flexible), but neither do you want San Francisco Bay East Bridge (too rigid).

As for the fan situation, that really doesn't work in practice. The debris thing simply isn't an issue, until it is, because of its relative infrequency. It's like with airline pilots, and emergency situations. Flight crews often don't quite know, or don't know at all, what to do in that moment when something happens, and the autopilot disengages, dumping the situation in their laps. The autopilot does most of the flying, whereas, the human pilots really NEED to be actively flying EVERY DAY to be properly engrained with what must happen in an abnormal situation.

It is always going to be a problem. Every form of racing has had to make changes in response to a major accident. I don't really know what you do with the fencing-you have to enlist new eyes to the situation I guess. I don't remember those fences as being much different than a back yard type fence when I was a kid. Now they are something like the structure of a suspension bridge.

They have a problem in getting rid of plates-unless you build with brick-like aerodynamics, they have too much power. If you do a major reduction in displacement you could have them open, but you lose the 'sound,' and they would look terrible on short tracks (I don't even know if they still run short tracks).

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

NASCAR are very strong on safety and noone is forced to attend these races. Like most corporations, they are safe really to cover their own backsides rather than that they are a swell bunch of guys but they are quite strong nevertheless. As long as the dangers in attending are stressed, NASCAR continues to plug the holes that arise and remain vigilant in relation to safety and research, they are doing what they should be doing. Perhaps fans with families need to think a little about where they get their seats with the big speedways i.e not in the front row.

Way back 20 years ago, I sat down on the front row at Talledega, close enough you could feel the blast of air from the cars. TV minimizes the speed. Looks slower than it really is. The cars are moving at the speed that some airplanes fly. I got the sense then if one of those 3400 pound cars gets in the air and into the fence, it's going to be interesting.

[Scooter185]

the large steel cables that run through the fence should be connected to diesel engines (underground), and work like the arresting cables on an aircraft carrier.

[fieldodreams79]

I sat with my 5 year old son 15 rows up of start/finish at ATL Motorspeedy because we basically got a free pass on the rain delayed event a couple years ago. I purposely sat up track from him and kept as vigilant eye towards turn 4 as much as possible to protect my son, best I could. I knew the risk but nothing happened, and I had one of the greatest weekends of my life as my son and I got first class treatment and the BEST seats in the house. Thousands, perhaps, millions have people have done the exact same thing at most "superspeedways" since Bobby Allison went flying into the fence at Tallagega, but the risk is there at every track where the speeds exceed 180 MPH.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

The wheel went over the fence at an arc away from the main wreck and hit what I initially thought was the crowd. On second viewing it hit before the crowd although what direction it then bounced wasn't sighted via the camera.

There's no known fence that will prevent a shrapnel shower outright in the event of an accident like that, it can only mitigate things.

The wheel went through the fence, not over it. Take a look at it's trajectory , it's far too shallow to have gone over.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Matt

The wheel went through the fence, not over it. Take a look at it's trajectory , it's far too shallow to have gone over.

http://deadspin.com/5986464/?utm_cam...ium=socialflow

Are you sure? Check it again, looking at the 2nd video down circa the 28th second.

[mrfizz]

I watched this incident live and immeditely thought the worst. However, you have to say the debris fence did it's job. The majority of the big heavy stuff was stopped before it git to the fans, apart from the errant wheel of course, but that was just circumstance (i.e. the whole front end of a car being ripped off - the wheels are going to be loose!).

I think the majority of fans who were injured were hit by small bits of bodywork, small engine parts and engine oil. So why not have some sort of secondary perspex-type screen, say 5-6 feet high, placed a couple of feet behind the debris fence. The main fence can do its job of stopping the big stuff, and the secondary screen catches the small bits and bobs to stop them flying at people.

Just a thought.