"Racing incidents"?

[dtype38]

Sorry, but can't see the attraction of rolling starts in anything other than dry conditions with grids of similar cars. Even then I can't see it working at club level.

First off, a standing start requires the skill of clutch control, it gives light but lower power cars a chance to get track position over the "big grunt" cars, and it most definitely makes sure the start is a "level playing field" for all the competitors.

The idea that it would be safer on a wet track is ludicrous. It's hard enough to see the lights change on a rainy day when you're standing still. The chance of knowing when the race has started with half a pack of cars kicking up spray onto your windscreen are minimal. So then you just have to guess and floor it not really knowing if the start actually happened or if the pole guy did something wrong and everyone is "going around again". Not what I'd call safe.

On top of that, from my days in karting I know from direct experience that poor pole position driving is quite common. Excessive "stringing out" of the grid or dangerous last second "bunching" were common problems leading to numerous and time wasting efforts to reform the grid and "go round again". Not only that but there is no way officials can keep track of the relative positions of more than the first dozen or so vehicles at a the start. This leads to opportunist "jump starts" from lower order drivers causing lots of complaints but very little that can be done about it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in well funded, well managed, high level motorsport, there might well be enough driver skill and enough officials to make sure that rolling starts are done correctly and fairly. But in club motorsport? Don't think so.

[Al Weyman]

I disagree, of the 4 I have done this year they all went well with no problems, two at Brands and two at Rockingham and one of the Brands ones was pouring down, I like them and think they are the way to go. I have several startline incidents including writing off a Rover that swerved to avoid a stalled car sitting on the grid into my path as I had just dropped the clutch and even last weekend was bogged down behind an almost stalled car.

[COLIN STUBBS]

i think it depends on the track to a large extent. maybe a rolling start is safer on a wide track like silverstone but somewhere like cadwell can be very dangerous with it being so narrow and cars travelling so much quicker into the first corner.its never going to be crash free on the first lap no matter what,but i think any driver with half his car on the grass before the first corner wants a penalty same as a jumped start,and anyone who is seen to cause a crash on or before the first corner nneds a good *******ing.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by dtype38

The idea that it would be safer on a wet track is ludicrous. It's hard enough to see the lights change on a rainy day when you're standing still. The chance of knowing when the race has started with half a pack of cars kicking up spray onto your windscreen are minimal. So then you just have to guess and floor it not really knowing if the start actually happened or if the pole guy did something wrong and everyone is "going around again". Not what I'd call safe.

IMO, it's safer than the same start but standing with potential to pelt into the back of someone who's stalled / had problems and not got away from the grid...little chance of seeing raised arm / waved yellow there either.

When a rolling start is performed properly, they work well, it's educating people on how to do it correctly.

"Going round again" is simply a way to ensure the restart is as fair as possible and simply acts as another warm up lap before forming again for a restart.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Suze

When a rolling start is performed properly, they work well, it's educating people on how to do it correctly.

That's the problem, starting properly. I have not seen or been in a rolling start that has been done properly (mainly dtrc races) at club level. They nearly all seem to end up with someone in the middle of the pack leaving a massive gap and holding the rest of the pack up.

[Suze]

See that's the problem, I have seen them done properly but obviously there do seem to be a fair number of issues with them as well.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by falcemob

That's the problem, starting properly. I have not seen or been in a rolling start that has been done properly (mainly dtrc races) at club level. They nearly all seem to end up with someone in the middle of the pack leaving a massive gap and holding the rest of the pack up.

Yes that does seem to happen quite a lot, but you'd think that they would be used to doing them by now?!

I think it is something that needs addressing for next season.

I do think that the rolling starts suit some series more than others and are certainly much better than standing starts for some series.

[Al Weyman]

Ah but I am an ex HotRodder and they taught us how to do it properly :-)

[dtype38]

I'm an ex Karter, and the rolling start was the one thing you could absolutely guarantee that the novices in the pack would make a pigs ear of!

[johngee]

Originally Posted by johngee

However, whenever this subject comes up, opinion seem to be divided about 50/50.

I think the posts on this thread have proved my point!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by chezza

Yes that does seem to happen quite a lot, but you'd think that they would be used to doing them by now?!

You would think that, yes, but sometimes that gap seems to be left deliberately - someone baulking cars behind him and anticipating when the lights go out so they are up with the leaders and moving quicker when racing starts, without pressure from behind. You get 3 or 4 trying that and the grid is stretched out for half the circuit and all over the place!

Of the DTRC starts this season, most of the rollers have had at least one driver doing that; the successful Brands start seems to have been the exception to the rule.

I think it is something that needs addressing for next season.

I hope it is addressed - if a driver tries to be clever and leave a gap to gain an advantage then the grid should go round again, lose a lap and the offending driver be named and shamed. Do it again and they're penalised, perhaps sent to the back of the grid where they can't hold others up.

As Al said, the hot-rodders get it right, so why can't long circuit racers? Rollers can work, but if there's nothing stopping people from messing them up then the bonuses of using them are partly negated.

Another issue with rolling starts is what to do when a driver doesn't take his place on the grid. Should everyone move up a place to leave no gaps? Because from experience a gap at the start is easily filled by the driver from the row behind, effectively gaining him two places!

[Eric Falce]

Rolling starts do seem to cause more problems than they cure,ok for the first couple of rows but I have been back on Clearways at Brands when the lead cars crossed the start line,dont have a chance to have a go at Rod and co.
Getting back onto thread,one of the main reasons for selling my Escort was the so called racing incidents,just about every panel on the car had been dented,none down to me although with one exception they could all be called racing incidents.
Next year from what I have seen,DTRC series is going to be even more competative,to retain the friendly atmosphere the so called racing incidents must be viewed very closely.

[Al Weyman]

Do you think there is just too much disparity between the speed and times of the front runners and the also rans in DTRC Eric? Just wondered with the popularity of the series and high entry levels it would be worth splitting it so Class A runs on its own as they are really like two different sets of regs between Class A and the rest. Did you get the Fiesta sorted and why not bring it out in pre-93 next year?

[Eric Falce]

Fired up yesterday in the car,first time since Lydden early on in the year,hope to do some track time on wednesday at Brands.

[Al Weyman]

Say hello to my good friend Gerry Cain Eric, he will be there with his Rover you cant miss it Bastos colours, may even come myself if it don't pick up here a bit.

[Eric Falce]

The Fiesta has just done its first lap of Sidcup High st for many a month,went very well,all the new systems seemd to be working,will find out Wednesday.
Al,will say hallo to Gerry for you,see the TRC is not for you,pity,would have loved showing you a clean pair of heels.

[Al Weyman]

Well it was going really well after I had a specially dialed in electronic MSD ignition system and a big alloy rad so it ran coooler but so well it unfortunately went POP at Snetterton! I liked my run out with DTRC and liked the 2 race format but there was some awfully fast machines out there that the old tubs will never be able to challenge and we all like to be in with a shout however remote and I had more fun with CTRCC where I was a bit more on the pace.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Conversely, I've seen many examples of a driver going off for one reason or another and madly charging back onto the circuit as quickly as possible without bothering first to regain control of the vehicle or look for a gap in the traffic. Bloody dangerous and rarely anything gets done.

A tad late Dave...but this is a reportable offence....I've written a few up...then its up to the stewards. Of course, there are instances where the car is just out of control and might cross the track etc....everyone holds their breath....I urge all racers to try and do the right thing in this regard....can be damn scary and dangerous as Dave has said.