Downright Dangerous Safety Features in Modern Cars

[wnut]

This eye watering news brought to you by TopGear!

Brake pedal disappears in emergency stop, courtesy of Suzuki!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdZuKiJtbDw

at 22 mins 44 secs

Very good episode of TopGear actually, one of their best.

[GTRMagic]

Pulling the pedals away in the event of a crash makes sense... but not during hard stops... would be great on a track day...

[nicanary]

I know it's not quite what you're looking for in terms of thread content, but by far and away the worst thing about modern cars is the lack of visibility. Legislation has forced designers and engineers to construct cars in such a way that they have to incorporate umpteen airbags and rollcage capabilities, thus reducing window area to almost a minimum.

Add to that the head restraints on the top of seat-backs, and a driver is basically cocooned in safety, but unable to see all around him. Anyone who drives a classic car will know what I'm talking about - the view from within something from the 60s is like sitting in a greenhouse. Given the chance, I'd tick an "option" box when buying a car to have no safety, and more glass, and take the personal risk. I can't see insurance companies agreeing to that, unfortunately.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Add to that the head restraints on the top of seat-backs, and a driver is basically cocooned in safety, but unable to see all around him. Anyone who drives a classic car will know what I'm talking about - the view from within something from the 60s is like sitting in a greenhouse. Given the chance, I'd tick an "option" box when buying a car to have no safety, and more glass, and take the personal risk. I can't see insurance companies agreeing to that, unfortunately.

I understand what you mean. I had a 1970 Ford Capri many years ago and the only thing limited visibility was the long bonnet. Since it was very low-to-the ground, the bonnet was almost pointing upwards. Otherwise, visibility to left and right was really good. Capri is not a so called hardtop but still the B-pillar was very thin, no need to bend forward when you do 90 degree turns.

[bella]

Originally Posted by nicanary

I know it's not quite what you're looking for in terms of thread content, but by far and away the worst thing about modern cars is the lack of visibility. Legislation has forced designers and engineers to construct cars in such a way that they have to incorporate umpteen airbags and rollcage capabilities, thus reducing window area to almost a minimum.

could not agree more. if i had a penny for the number of times a car, an actual full car had been concealed at junctions by the combination of slight forward motion on my behalf and the huge windscreen/door pillar combination... i've had motorbikes and pushbikes in exactly the same spot too. what are we meant to do, gain x-ray vision?

[Moosehead]

Electric handbrakes!!

I've lost count of the number of times where broken down cars have been left striken in the middle of the road due to the electric hand brake not being able to be released. Apart from the obvious possibility of being rear ended it also causes enormous congestion as the plastic police guys can't just push the car off the carriageway - the congestion usually increases the likelyhood of further accidents.

PS - I always thought that the handbrake was supposed to be a mechanical device which could be used in emergencies, the mechanical aspect being tested during the MOT - how do electric h/b comply?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bella

could not agree more. if i had a penny for the number of times a car, an actual full car had been concealed at junctions by the combination of slight forward motion on my behalf and the huge windscreen/door pillar combination... i've had motorbikes and pushbikes in exactly the same spot too. what are we meant to do, gain x-ray vision?

Actually bella...
I've seen a video showing a system being developed by Jaguar (and this wasn't on April 1st) that used a combination of external camera's and LED screens built into the windscreen & door pillars to effectively give you complete 180° vision as what was hidden behind the blind spot is actually 'displayed' on the screen & door pillars!

[grantp]

All of the above, especially the EuroNCAP door pillars, plus .... amongst other things

Blacked out windows.
Smaller and smaller windows.
Wider and wider vehicles.
Huge door mirrors.
Taller passenger vehicles.
No windows in vans.

All of which greatly reduce one's ability to see what is going on several vehicles ahead and drive accordingly or make safe maneouvres when pulling out of junctions or parking, etc.

Plus the darkened interiors and very sloped and curved screens make it almost impossible to make eye contact with or even see the driver of an approaching car and so judge what they might do next.

"The Authorities" like this on the basis that most people, in the absence of instruction and certainty, will apply greater caution. Or so the belief goes.

They may be right but we will never know with any degree of certainty.

Once autonomous self driving cars arrive it won't matter anyway.

[mountainstar]

One of the things I am seeing with all the latest radar, laser, camera, whatever it might be systems that are oriented towards crash avoidance and staying in lanes or whatever is that now there are so many beeps, buzzers and lights going off that it's becoming more a hindrance and a distraction than a help. And I think people are becoming overly dependent on them to the point of paying even less attention to driving.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Electric handbrakes!!

I've lost count of the number of times where broken down cars have been left striken in the middle of the road due to the electric hand brake not being able to be released. Apart from the obvious possibility of being rear ended it also causes enormous congestion as the plastic police guys can't just push the car off the carriageway - the congestion usually increases the likelyhood of further accidents.

PS - I always thought that the handbrake was supposed to be a mechanical device which could be used in emergencies, the mechanical aspect being tested during the MOT - how do electric h/b comply?

Agreed 100%!!!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Electric handbrakes!!

I've lost count of the number of times where broken down cars have been left striken in the middle of the road due to the electric hand brake not being able to be released. Apart from the obvious possibility of being rear ended it also causes enormous congestion as the plastic police guys can't just push the car off the carriageway - the congestion usually increases the likelyhood of further accidents.

PS - I always thought that the handbrake was supposed to be a mechanical device which could be used in emergencies, the mechanical aspect being tested during the MOT - how do electric h/b comply?

Yup, and what gives me the complete set of the willies is that these manufacturers also give us electric steering!

[Adam43]

I've never had or seen a problem with an electronic handbrake. Other than not knowing where it was at first in an unfamiliar car.

Also I see the mention of huge door mirrors. Apart from being unsightly I like a good useful mirror, I like to know what's going on around.

Of course the most dangerous feature of any car is, to steal the well used phrase, the nut behind the wheel.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I've never had or seen a problem with an electronic handbrake. Other than not knowing where it was at first in an unfamiliar car.

Also I see the mention of huge door mirrors. Apart from being unsightly I like a good useful mirror, I like to know what's going on around.

Of course the most dangerous feature of any car is, to steal the well used phrase, the nut behind the wheel.

Anything mechanical can go wrong. Something that is electro-mechanical is even more likely to go wrong!
Usually the mechanisms are underneath the car and get bombarded with all the crud & water available, not good for electrics. Quite often when they go faulty, they don't release (which is somewhat inconvenient) and when the 'emergency release' cable is pulled, this kills the device and the 'safety systems; in the vehicle prevent you still from driving it because it thinks that the handbrake is still on! This means that you then have the expense of having your vehicle recovered to a garage before you can have the pleasure of paying hundreds of pounds to have the unit replaced, knowing in the back of your mind that if the original one has only lasted five years (for example) it's fair to assume that the replacement will not last any longer...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Anything mechanical can go wrong. Something that is electro-mechanical is even more likely to go wrong!

...
...
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Such logic, I shall stop using cars and toasters.

I speak only from my experience.
Quite often it has been fine.

FWIW the last car I bought has a conventional handbrake, which that and the other back to basics, are why I bought it.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Such logic, I shall stop using cars and toasters.

I speak only from my experience.
Quite often it has been fine.

FWIW the last car I bought has a conventional handbrake, which that and the other back to basics, are why I bought it.

Hi Adam, when electronic parking brakes have been around as long as toasters, they might be as reliable. (Having said that, our toaster generally needs three or four presses before it stays down. I think I'll have to dig out the old toasting fork and get the fire lit!)

I speak from experience too, but thankfully for me, it is from the experience of my customers who have had electronic handbrake problems.

[Adam43]

So are you benefiting from the hundreds of pounds to fix the problem?

[Mike Harte]

Adam, there are many well documented cases, certainly in the UK, where electronic "handbrakes" have self activated. In fact, there was a fairly recent reality documentary series on the TV following the motorway police, and one of the programmes actually featured a nearly brand new Range Rover with a female driver stuck in the fast lane of the M1 motorway. Apparently she was driving along at the legal speed limit of 70 mph when the handbrake just came on, bringing the car to a hasty stop during one of the busiest times of the day.

It caused a massive tailback, and they had to wait until a recovery vehicle arrived to drag it up on to the flat-bed. The officers read through the index of the driver's manual to find a way to release the brakes, but mention of that there was none.

On a personal not, I have had to hire a few cars over the last couple of years, and a number of them had electronic handbrakes, and I must admit that I don't like them especially on uphill, slippery surfaces such as roads covered in snow and ice. Unfortunately, I happen to live in one of the most hilly places in the UK, up on the Pennines, and if we don't have snow and ice it must be our one day of summer!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So are you benefiting from the hundreds of pounds to fix the problem?

Sadly Adam, not as much as BMW and Ford benefitted in selling us the unitso repair their vehicles!

[BudLightJaguar]

I have experience in three cars (+one rental car) with electronic handbrake (Citroen C5, 2 Volvo V60's and Audi A5) and I can't remember any problems related to the hand brake.

Though I still think there was nothing wrong in general with a mechanical hand brake so why fix it if it's not broken? Well of course, mechanical handbrake can cause some embarrassing situations on your driveway if you don't remember to release it, especially with a manual transmission. And when there's no handbrake handle between the front seats, there's more room for cd-boxes and cup holders.

[grantp]

Within the last 2 days was a story about a lady who, apparently, inadvertently locked her Land Rover (?) vehicle with the keys and an 8 month old baby inside it.

How is that possible in this century?

Assuming it was not user stupidity on a grand scale - like giving the keyfob to the infant to play with - how do the designers manage to produce such a situation? (With idiot slightly older children and buttons to push I can allow them some leeway, but not an 8 month old child and a mother of unstated (AFAIK) age.

If they can come up with such a plan for door locks one has to question what they might allow for any other components based on having electrical power available and deployable.

[NaBUru38]

The most dangerous element in road cars are the drivers.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The most dangerous element in road cars are the drivers.

Yeah, but how do you re-engineer one of them driver things?

A good slap in the side of the head frequently offends!

[wnut]

Here is one that happened to me in a Golf yesterday!
The clutch pedal just dropped away to the floor, so flat that it had literally vanished, it felt like it had dropped right through the metal.
It was very disorientating, and I instinctively "looked" for the vanished pedal with my left foot and ended up tapping the brakes, fortunately only momentarily, or else there could have been a massive tailgating!

Long and the short is that VW have built a little pocket on the side of the pedal to contain the master cylinder activation rod, from what I can make out is the pocket is designed to fail in the event of impact. The pocket is however too delicate or badly constructed to withstand daily use, and failed allowing the activation rod to go straight past the pedal through the back of the pocket. Bang clutch pedal vanishes - very disconcerting!

Very, very dangerous!

How many accidents has this caused?

Bit of an irony after I posted the Suzuki pedals vanishing drama!

[wnut]

Your airbag could kill you with shrapnel!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ecall-in-japan

"Six fatalities in Honda cars, including five in the U.S. and one in Malaysia, have been blamed on shrapnel from Takata air bags. At least 105 injuries are connected to the flaw, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson said last month."

[Akrapovic]

New European Ford Focus has the usual sensors that read the traffic ahead and what not. It has 2 systems for stopping you rear ending another car - one which will do an emergency stop should it feel that you're about to hit the car in front. The other seems a bit more dangerous - the car does not automatically brake but will produce a beep and flash up on the dashboard that you're about to have a crash.

To me, that just says that you'll be looking at the dashboard at a critical moment, rather than at the road.