Saloon car series

[R59]

My suggestions were a starting point. I would probably say that the Class D weights are pretty well there, though C, B, & A, could could go a little lighter, it would need to be looked at. There will always be cars that will be "overweight", but it should peg back some of the superlightweights that have been running away with it.

And my idea of allowing RWD to run lighter than FWD is simply because there are far more FWD cars on the market, and it would encourage RWD cars into the series. Making a FWD car work well is pretty straight forward, though a RWD car with the right "nut" behind the wheel can be quicker in the right circumstances. However, in BTCC format, you have engines all producing the same power within a gnats, and that makes very close racing, with overtaking difficult. RWD is quicker off the line, and out of the corner, the idea of the weight "penalty" on RWD was to give the FWD cars a chance.

The weights don't favour your Mini, Andy, but if you were to build it to ModProd regs (which is what we're talking about), ie: glass, and steel panels, you'd be closer to the weight to start with.

With the difference in the size of us clubbie jockey's, I would argue that the weights should include the driver, and be measured at the end of the race.
If in doubt, each chips before going out!.

Denis, your comments?

Denis? where are you?.... ahhh yess - you're at Lydden!

Rob.

[216gti]

I didn't mean LMA's or any other current series, personally I think LMA's are great. It was just a comment about something that was said earlier.

Originally Posted by Mark Bailey

I decided to leave for for two reasons.

1. Cost. Membership fees of the club and then series rose to about £300 even before you had to pay £290 for a double header.

2. Tyres. At £500 for a set of slicks that some guys were using 2 sets per weekend was too expensive for me. I much prefer championships that allow 'road' based tyres which are half the cost and last 4/5 rounds.

Matt, I thought I had read that you agreed with this, if I didn't then I apologise, I didn't mean to misrepresent what you had said.
Not trying to start some kind of cult or anything, just fancied getting out with some more 216's, CRX's etc.
Seriously though has anyone got any feedback on how these cars are on the 1a/1b tyres and how they affect lap times etc.

[216gti]

Sorry, wrong thread

[COLIN STUBBS]

have a look at my times on mst for cadwell last bh sunday on toyo and monday nsvr. practice on slicks,race one on wets and race 2 on dunlop r grooved tyres like toyo 888/yoko. came off a mini cooper challenge car and after a few laps felt good. they would be nice in pre93 i think.

[216gti]

Avro, I didn't mean LMA's or any other current series and I'm not having a go at anyone, only commenting on something that was said earlier.

Originally Posted by Mark Bailey

I decided to leave for for two reasons.

1. Cost. Membership fees of the club and then series rose to about £300 even before you had to pay £290 for a double header.

2. Tyres. At £500 for a set of slicks that some guys were using 2 sets per weekend was too expensive for me. I much prefer championships that allow 'road' based tyres which are half the cost and last 4/5 rounds.

£1000 a meeting on tyres seemed like buying the front of the grid in my book but obviously there is club racing and then there is club racing.
Matt, I thought I'd read that you agreed with this in a later post but if I didn't then I apologise, I did not mean to misrepresent what you had said.
Wasn't trying to start a cult or anything, just fancied getting out with some more 216's and CRX's etc. and wondered if any other owners were on here, did they all want to enter the same meeting, only a thought!

[216gti]

Bugger, done it again!!!

[greenamex2]

RWD Class D: 750Kg
FWD Class D: 775Kg



Even if they were the right way round I would still be 50KG over, even with plastic bits!

[Al Weyman]

Dennis, maybe you should just give up thoughts of winning in that Toyota and put it down to a bad choice of car, some cars are just not ging to cut it whatever you chuck at them which is why I feel there should be allowances for different models within the rules as the do in the US's equivilent to club racing (SCCA?).

Maybe a bit like my mounts but I am not bothered as I love the cars and winning overall or the prospect of is secondary (has to be, can cut it in class though!) so maybe you feel the same about your car in which case get it out in DTRC, Pre-93 or somewhere where you will almost be guaranteed to have a good race purely because of the sheer numbers there will be someone to spar with.

Come out on the 25th at Rockingham 2 races for £150 and gets you away from the soccer:-), it looks fun.

[greenamex2]

I always get a good race in Toyo's and with some of changes coming up very shortly I think things are going to get better rapidly. We gained an extra three cars just on Sunday, and two of them even got some silverware!

As for DTRC, my car is too penalised by the 16 valve rule and it's full. And I wouldn't/couldn't want to revert my car to pre-93 if I wanted too.

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

As for DTRC, my car is too penalised by the 16 valve rule and it's full.

dont dissmiss it too quickly dennis, your car would be class D, the most winningest car in that class this year is a road legal 170bhp 1800cc 2 valve alfa sud

[greenamex2]

As would the Pug 205 that won our races at Lydden and was 2 seconds quicker than me (albeit with me being on 1 year old tyres that have been bathed in my own oil 5 times).

[COLIN STUBBS]

keep me posted denis. hope you had a good weekend. cant seem to find the results. im just nipping outside to oil me tyres.........

[carrera]

Denis- what was the matter with the car Sunday? It appeared to be reluctant to start.

The Pye Alfa's best lap was a 49.3 how does that compare with your own times?

[greenamex2]

Alternator packed up combined with the two dozen starts on Saturday to discover TWO broken NGK spark plugs.

Dunno who the guy was with the Mondeo but I owe you a drink next time I see you.

My best is around 49.3 (on new un-oiled T1R's) but as I said it isn't the existing class D cars I would be worried about. Take Nick Williamsons old 205, destroke it to 2 litre and it would be in class D as well. And it wouldn't be much slower then last year. Or Sean Hollands 205 that is 2 litre and did a high 47, on Toyo T1R's, and stick it on one race only slicks.

That is my point.

Now give my car an 1800 and things would be on a par.

Please don't think I am in any way derating the current class D cars, they just aren't 'pushing the envelope/wallet/resources' of what could be possible.

Whereas my car was largely built and developed before the baby and responsibilities arrived and with loans and credit cards totalling OVER 40,000 pounds and there is not a heck of a lot left you can do to it that would make it faster under Mod Prod rules. OK I may not be the worlds greater driver but I have still lapped faster in that car than a well respected professional racing driver because I have raced the same car for 18 years.

[COLIN STUBBS]

denis i know you too well for that. after some good years with my capri which turned into something i thought i couldnt ever get rid of,and some pretty horendous personal probs i needed a change. and after soooo many long nights in the garage i needed something reliable,cheap and fun.and at the min its going to stay that way. maybe... got the pm mate and sent my details will speak soon. thanks.

[carrera]

Guy with Mondeo was Rene duBern; mechanic for Team BX Sport.

[greenamex2]

Cheers Rene.