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15 Nov 2017, 14:18 (Ref:3780562) | #5251 | |
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As I see it, this is 100% McLaren lobbying for this. I mean sure the others would go along with it too as Toyota here proves, but the Zak Brown department seems to be the real driving force. For the past 5-7? years they've been touting it to be the REQUIREMENT for Le Mans return in the top class, as in the only solution. And now that they are publicly saying they would love to be back, and there aren't anyone campaigning against it, now ACO suddenly is considering the change out of blue. Just like the EVO was considered 10 years ago when General Motors wanted it for Corvette. The difference then was that Audi and Pug and others weren't really in favor of it and the whole thing collapsed to pieces, while now you only really have Toyota left and they'd be perfectly willing to go for it if it meant others joined.
I have nothing against GT1 styled prototypes again, HOWEVER it would be absolute garbage if it'd implement balance of performance nonsense in it. Furthermore you'd once again split LMP1 into two, as surely privateers would still carry on with conventional prototype design... I guess you could rename the factory-intended class as LMGTP and keep LMP1 as it is, but ehh |
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15 Nov 2017, 14:37 (Ref:3780566) | #5252 | ||
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http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/w...tle-in-201819/ The FIA and ACO, meanwhile, have also clarified that OEMs will not be allowed to enter a complete car built to LMP1 non-hybrid regulations, although can supply engines to teams, as is the case today. Additionally, the branding of a complete LMP1 non-hybrid will be permitted, as long as the chassis and engine is produced by a “private race car manufacturer” and be in compliance with the homologation for private teams. |
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15 Nov 2017, 15:15 (Ref:3780574) | #5253 | ||
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The ACO should just drop the requirement and get on with it.
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15 Nov 2017, 18:37 (Ref:3780604) | #5254 | |
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That's not really a problem, I can't see any manufacturer designing their own chassis in the lifetime of the current regulations anyways.
For what it's worth aero matching isn't actually BoP. It's just removing aero from the performance equation entirely and putting it all on mechanicals, a position some people would be in favour of for promoting drivetrain technology instead of esoteric wind tunnel developments. Not fond personally though, aerodynamics are still a big part of efficiency after all. |
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15 Nov 2017, 20:09 (Ref:3780625) | #5255 | ||||||
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And by your measure, LMP1 is only looking to be one manufacturer down compared to IMSA in 2018(Toyota, Ginetta, ByKolles). So yes, the popularity of DPi is being overstated even by you. (though the death of the ByKolles is looking possible at this point, for now it should be assumed they're joining since nothing's confirmed) When you refer to DPi as being popular, you imply that it has some massive level of interest that makes it inherently superior to other classes. This is simply not the case. Quote:
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All those development costs despite the class being built entirely around BoP. Why is that? It's because the class still has room to do so. If it was all about profits, GT3 cars would still be little different than when the class first started. Engineers like a challenge. GT3 provides that challenge while also being Quote:
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15 Nov 2017, 20:14 (Ref:3780629) | #5256 | |
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No, you would in fact be wrong. If you would like to be pedantic the correct turn of phrase would be they have tied their record low. But they are in fact at their record low level, a record can be ESTABLISHED only once but any time to you return to that point you would be at your record lows.
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15 Nov 2017, 21:02 (Ref:3780636) | #5257 | |
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When i refer to DPi as popular, I imply that it has the most manufacturer entries. Which it does. I suppose if we redefine the word popular (we're already redefining record, why stop there?) then we can change that. But I'm fine with the current definitions. DPi has gone from nothing to 4 manufacturers in little over a year. That's popular. No amount of arguing will change that.
All this discussion on "this is what the manufacturers ACTUALLY want", and yet here we are with 1, almost 0 in LMP1, because we kept getting told "this is what the manufacturers actually want". The discussion on GT3 stuff is a bit....crazy, honestly. It's a customer based program, with servicing and support and marketing. It's quite obvious why it's popular and it has a lot to do with the 200 Audi R8s sold, serviced and supported around the world more than the engineering challenge. Business doesn't run on what an engineer thinks would be a fun maths project to run, as much as we'd all like it to. |
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15 Nov 2017, 23:15 (Ref:3780651) | #5258 | ||
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Quote:
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16 Nov 2017, 00:15 (Ref:3780656) | #5259 | ||
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Quote:
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16 Nov 2017, 03:50 (Ref:3780674) | #5260 | |||
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Case in point, his claim that DTM is at death's door because of this is undone by the mere fact that two manufacturers is what they had when they relaunched the series - and they certainly weren't at death's door then, or after Opel left them with two manufacturers a second time. Sure there are other questions hovering around, but DTM still has two manufacturers ready and willing to hop in if they make one specific change(three if they make a second change) to the regulations. DTM really can't be said to be at death's door under the current circumstances. But that's enough of a divergence, I think - to be talking about DTM outside of Class One's relevance to new LMP1 rules is a bit off-topic. |
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16 Nov 2017, 03:57 (Ref:3780677) | #5261 | |
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Speaking of Class One, the increasing buzz surrounding the LMP-GT1 proposal could be a lead into LMP1 evolving into a Class One variant. I'd vastly prefer that to 'manufacturer bodywork' that'll last until Honda says 'it IS a Honda, regardless of what it looks like' and sticks a giant front wing on it again.
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. . . but I'm not a traditionalist so maybe my opinion doesn't count! -TF110 |
16 Nov 2017, 05:59 (Ref:3780685) | #5262 | ||
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16 Nov 2017, 09:22 (Ref:3780698) | #5263 | ||
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I could get behind the idea of road car manufacturer bodywork. I would hope that it could be carbon fibre though, or at least a portion of it could be. I would also hope that the road car bodywork could be widened slightly at the arches (I would presume this would be the case due to the size of race tyres). I would like to see something like GTE but with much more power and more aero - a big rear end mounted rear extended wing and make them about 800-900kg.
I guess we need to establish how much of the road car will be on the race car, whether it will just be a silhouette or will it actually have road car origins? Last edited by Sodemo; 16 Nov 2017 at 09:34. |
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16 Nov 2017, 11:49 (Ref:3780721) | #5264 | ||
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It will be. This isn't Grand-Am, it's the ACO in concert with the manufacturers and an IMSA that is run by people who understand the value of such things in prototypes. They're not going to let LMP2 be higher-tech and safer than LMP1. The cars aren't going to be modified road cars after all - they'll be purpose built racecars.
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16 Nov 2017, 14:13 (Ref:3780750) | #5265 | ||
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LMP1 should have rules that would make customer cars an option again. Have OEMs building cars that customer teams car buy and run. OEMs could still run their factory teams. That way private teams could get some competitive cars, an LMP1 program would make more sense in financial terms for OEMs, and the class would have more cars. |
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16 Nov 2017, 15:01 (Ref:3780760) | #5266 | ||
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Per SC365, the ACO are considering dumping their current pit stop format in favor of adopting IMSA regs or maybe old ALMS regs.
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16 Nov 2017, 15:06 (Ref:3780761) | #5267 | |||
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16 Nov 2017, 17:23 (Ref:3780790) | #5268 | ||
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Would indie teams be producing a LMP1 racer with road car origins / looks? If so what would the motivation be? Perhaps they would, just thinking out loud.
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19 Nov 2017, 12:10 (Ref:3781471) | #5269 | |
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I guess Glickenhaus could be interested
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19 Nov 2017, 15:28 (Ref:3781498) | #5270 | ||
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That was my guess too. Reports over the years confirmed interest for entering LMP1...Heck and if future regs are aligned with road car styling, well then... There was also reported from interest from Subaru. Both fit the definition of a manufacturer never having raced Le Mans
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19 Nov 2017, 17:24 (Ref:3781513) | #5271 | ||
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Glickenhaus will be launching a new model, the SCG 004 in 2019 and there will be a GTE / GTLM and a GT3 of this car.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...s-photos-info/ http://www.motortrend.com/news/meet-...llion-scg-003/ |
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21 Nov 2017, 00:31 (Ref:3781853) | #5272 | ||
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Quote:
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21 Nov 2017, 15:38 (Ref:3781983) | #5273 | ||
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Vasselon: “Positive Momentum” for GT-Styled LMP1 Proposal.
The FIA and ACO are due to release guidelines for the proposed 2020/21 rules next month, with a recent proposal for production-car inspired LMP1 cars appearing to be the favored option among manufacturers, including Toyota. The Japanese manufacturer has been among the half-dozen automakers that have been involved in recent meetings, included representatives from McLaren and Ford. http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/v...-lmp1-concept/ |
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21 Nov 2017, 18:48 (Ref:3782035) | #5274 | |
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Is it time to bring out those mothballed Corvette Dp bodies?
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22 Nov 2017, 00:20 (Ref:3782094) | #5275 | |
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No. They wouldn't be eligible and they're too slow. Cadillac have a car anyway they can use in the Dallara if they are allowed. I think the rules will be brand new and everyone will have to make or style a new car.
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