Porsche WSC-95 & LMP1-98

[Hugewally]

There was a Mazda MXR-01 on display at the Laguna Historics last year. Was told that is had been in a conex box for a long time. The guys taking care of it really didn't know much about it.

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Yes it's this car :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalopni...7600796286167/

http://site.voila.fr/xjr14/mxr01/mag02.html

This car has run the very last race of World Sportscar Championship in Magny-Cours 1992 !

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

In one book I own it was said rival designers were unimpressed with XJR-14's F1 inspired nose wing, as it created lots of drag, but maximum downforce seems the direction LMP designs have moved to since.

So unimpressed they copied it (Peugeot 905)!

[Aslak Vind]

Extremely interesting, keep it coming guys

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by JAG

In one book I own it was said rival designers were unimpressed with XJR-14's F1 inspired nose wing, as it created lots of drag, but maximum downforce seems the direction LMP designs have moved to since.

The 3.5 Group C cars didn't run to a fuel consumption requirement, and thus Jaguar and Peugeot poured on all the downforce they could and hope that at tracks where the conventional Group C cars could have an advantage that by cranking up the power and by having better braking and cornering abilities(lighter car, more downforce) could blunt any straightline speed deficits.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The 3.5 Group C cars didn't run to a fuel consumption requirement, and thus Jaguar and Peugeot poured on all the downforce they could and hope that at tracks where the conventional Group C cars could have an advantage that by cranking up the power and by having better braking and cornering abilities(lighter car, more downforce) could blunt any straightline speed deficits.

That's a bit of an over simplification because if you look at the 3.5 Liter Car's overall aero efficiency, they were some of the most efficient cars to ever compete with L/Ds exceeding 6:1 for the Peugeot and Toyota. So they didn't lack for straight line speed given their power outputs. But in specific regards to the XJR-14, it wasn't as efficient as made out to be. The Jaguar ran in the 4-4.5:1 range.

The Jaguar was so good because of its timing. It came out of the box and had most everything right (down to minimum weight and good reliability) while the Peugeot struggled (unreliable, over weight, initially aero nothing special). But when time Peugeot introduced its redesign mid-season '91, it was clear the 905 was a major step forward in aero efficiency. So too the Toyota TS010, hence the Mazda MXR-01 struggled in'92.

As further proof of the Jaguar's draggy nature, trap speeds at Le Mans in '91 indicate a top speed of 319 kph for the #4 XJR-14 (data is incomplete as no trap time was acquired for the sister car--did it even do much running?). In MXR-01 form in '92, the Mazda could do no better than 324 kph while the Peugeot was hitting 351 kph and the Toyota 346. And note the #6 Kajima Mazda MXR-01 ran with a low drag rear wing set up that eliminated the top tier rear wing (no trap speeds unfortunately). Mazda knew it needed to try and shed some drag for Le Mans, though at the expense of downforce. Johnny Herbert ran so well in the early hours that year in the rain because of three things in particular; competitive downforce levels (despite giving up L/D, they at least ran to similar downforce taking the hit in the straight line), really good Goodyear wets, and a motivated Herbert.

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Mazda run with Michelin Tyres in 1992 !

French Michelin tyres are the best in the world lol

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Mazda run with Michelin Tyres in 1992 !

French Michelin tyres are the best in the world lol

Ugh, indeed, scratch that from the record!

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Yes it's this car :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalopni...7600796286167/

http://site.voila.fr/xjr14/mxr01/mag02.html

This car has run the very last race of World Sportscar Championship in Magny-Cours 1992 !

Yes, thats the one. The corrosion on the wheels looks is something else.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

The corrosion on the wheels looks is something else.

Thats sacrilidge !!! ..... I want one of them .

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Wow I have an other problem now. According to an official Porsche book, former Jaguar XJR-14 chassis 691 was TWR Porsche WSC-95 chassis 002 (Pole in Le Mans in 1996 with Martini-Theys-Alboreto).

But now, Remy Hubert from Gurneyflap http://www.gurneyflap.com/ say it's 001 chassis (Le Mans winner 96 and 97). according to "Motorsport" and "Racecar engineering". hum, i'm lost.

[CTD]

Hmm, why not call the museum where it stands, and ask them!. Either they got it written down in a database, or they are big enough enthusiast to know it, or they know your are a big enough enthusiast to find it out for you!.
I have good experience with calling people for info about different things!

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Lol I don't speak english or deutsch. Maybe ask to a membership of Joest in Le Mans next year in jacobins square it's possible...

Look at this link :

http://forums.autosport.com/showthre...t=jaguar+xjr14

nobody is agree lol. Sometimes they said two new tubes, sometimes XJR-14/691 is 001 or 002.

I'm sure there were two XJR-14 chassis in Valparaiso, Indiana. The destroy 791 and 691 who never crash. Tom Walkinshaw have 591 in Europe, quickly re-painted in purple.

[CTD]

Hmm you don't speak english or german?, how can you write here then?

[cmk]

Online translators are useful. It's always harder to speak a language on the phone, rapid fire, than to write in it anyway.

Emailing the museum might work though.

[JAG]

How many XJR-16's are there now Richard Eyre's XJR-17 has been converted back, which I discovered from Mike's excellent book?

One XJR-16 raced alongside the XJR-17 in historic Group C/GTP, but was a third ever built up from spares after the TWR sale, in fact were any 'new' TWR Jaguars built up from spares?

It always seemed a shame an XJR-16 was sacrificed for an unraced IMSA Lights/C2 car, it was also funny to read about the TWR Kiddlington and TWR Valparaiso rivalry.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

How many XJR-16's are there now Richard Eyre's XJR-17 has been converted back, which I discovered from Mike's excellent book?

One XJR-16 raced alongside the XJR-17 in historic Group C/GTP, but was a third ever built up from spares after the TWR sale, in fact were any 'new' TWR Jaguars built up from spares?

It always seemed a shame an XJR-16 was sacrificed for an unraced IMSA Lights/C2 car, it was also funny to read about the TWR Kiddlington and TWR Valparaiso rivalry.

Big time rivalry...each were "*******s" in the other's eye!

[The Badger]

I would love to read a book about the wheelings & dealings in the world of sportscar racing .

From the Whittington brothers to Ronny Meixner to TWR & the Robinsons ..... some laughs there !!!

I guess you couldnt print that though !!!

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Wow I have an other problem now. According to an official Porsche book, former Jaguar XJR-14 chassis 691 was TWR Porsche WSC-95 chassis 002 (Pole in Le Mans in 1996 with Martini-Theys-Alboreto).

But now, Remy Hubert from Gurneyflap http://www.gurneyflap.com/ say it's 001 chassis (Le Mans winner 96 and 97). according to "Motorsport" and "Racecar engineering". hum, i'm lost.

Digging this back up...do we know for sure what 691's chassis number became as TWR-Porsche WSC-95? Its my understanding the TWR Porsche in Joest's collection is indeed the former XJR-14 tub #691. I'd like to think they'd hang onto the double Le Mans winner, and in fact I believe that was the deal with Porsche--we win Le Mans with this car we get to keep it. So having said that, the double Le Mans winner--what's its chassis number; TWR Porsche WSC-95 001 or 002?

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Mike, I have talk with Tony Dowe, former TWR ingenior at Valparaiso. He confirm me : 591 have been crash at Lime Rock. This car can run but not at high speed Dowe said, it's now a show car in Duncan Dayton Hall. 691 have been totaly destroy at Elkhart Lake, rebuilt with a new chassis tube in 2003. And 791 is now Posche WSC-95-001 who have won Le Mans in 1996-1997. WSC-95-002 was a new chassis.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Mike, I have talk with Tony Dowe, former TWR ingenior at Valparaiso. He confirm me : 591 have been crash at Lime Rock. This car can run but not at high speed Dowe said, it's now a show car in Duncan Dayton Hall. 691 have been totaly destroy at Elkhart Lake, rebuilt with a new chassis tube in 2003. And 791 is now Posche WSC-95-001 who have won Le Mans in 1996-1997. WSC-95-002 was a new chassis.

Yes, Dowe has said the same thing to me...we take coffee on a somewhat regular basis. Dowe has clarified the record regarding the XJR-14 chassis though I'm now wondering where Leslie Thurston got his info as it clashes with Dowe's information. Anyhow...did some reading this morning and indeed confirmed WSC95 001 was the double Le Mans winner...and according to the contemporary record, 2 new chassis were built by Astec for 3 TWR Porsches in total---XJR-14 #791 to WSC 95 001, and the WSC 95 002 and (assuming) WSC 95 003.

[vs346]

So now, this begs the question:

What happened to chassis 003?

[Ted bennett]

Originally Posted by vs346

So now, this begs the question:

What happened to chassis 003?

It ended up winning Le Mans twice if I have followed this correctly. So it seems it resides in the Joest museum.

[Nordic]

Nope, I read it as the LM winning car was (XJR-14 #791) WSC 95 001.

002 and 003 were both new cars and did not morph from TWR cars.

002 was the sister entry at LM to 001 in 98 and 96.

003 Did it ever race? did 001 become 003, then revert to 001 to increase the value? or it is sitting in a workshop unloved and unbuilt?

Is that correct?

[Mad-Dog-mk2]

Which ones raced in 1998 then?
Were they 002 and 003 with 001 safely in the museum?