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Old 16 Jul 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3751689)   #31
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A recent scientific study in Sweden , [ most of the battery minerals are mined in that area ] , has shown that, just to produce a Tesla sized battery , produces as much emissions as driving a petrol or diesel car for 8 years .
And as the life of the batteries is not much more than that , overall electric cars produce more emissions than a petrol/ diesel car .

Even without the buying subsidy , electric cars are very expensive , & the value drops enormously meaning that in a few years they are worth nothing .
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...QWZnT-nMjKnIyA

Both Glasses guide here & Kelleys in the US have the value dropping like a stone . And less than 25% of buyers would buy another .

So , no good if you drive a lot of miles , very very expensive overall , & not as green as the propaganda wants you to believe .


PS . The electric truck claimed by Tesla needs 20 ton batteries to do 400 miles , & costs about twice as much as normal .So half the payload for twice the price , that will work really well ??????
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 13:38 (Ref:3751697)   #32
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Certainly not easy to make an electric Airbus or Boeing, I would think!

Ships use really poor grade fuel- I know ferry companies like P&O etc have to pay a pollution fine, which they just pass on to us, of course.....

Talking of which- I wonder if any ferry company will introduce charging points on their boats? They already supply power to run fridge trailers. At the moment EVs are able to charge at Eurotunnel Folkestone but nothing at the ferry ports.....
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 13:45 (Ref:3751700)   #33
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I'll make a proper reply after the WEC race and I've written my report. But it is amusing that I haven't even mentioned emissions and pollution and that's now what the discussion has become. People are so absolutely determined to hate electric cars that they'll ignore all the good points and tell you ships are bad.

Tesla Gigafactory that produces all the Tesla batteries is carbon neutral and solar powered. Tesla vehicles also hold their value incredibly well. Depreciation happens to petrol vehicles too. 97% of tesla owners said they would buy another. If you make good electric cars, people will buy them.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 13:59 (Ref:3751714)   #34
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The BMW 'i' assembly plant is also carbon neutral. The raw carbon fibre for i3 & i7 bodies is produced using hydro-electric. Many of the interior trim parts are produced from recycled material....

Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. If you hate, you hate!
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:05 (Ref:3751718)   #35
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Also note: I'm not a green nut. That's why I didn't talk about co2. It doesn't really bother me as much as it should. I'm a huge petrol lover. I want a Bentley with a silly engine. But all of this shifting around and dodging the arguments, then ignoring facts is just nonsense. Electric cars are coming and as much as I love petrol engines, it is not a sustainable situation and I don't see the downside to finding a solution to this problem.

All vehicles, with the exception to rockets, can be electric driven. Rockets are the exception because there's no way around Newton's third law.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:11 (Ref:3751720)   #36
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The BMW 'i' assembly plant is also carbon neutral. The raw carbon fibre for i3 & i7 bodies is produced using hydro-electric. Many of the interior trim parts are produced from recycled material....

Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. If you hate, you hate!
That is very true .
Oil Companies par far higher rates of tax , [ & much more of it ] , than just about any other business . Some countries whole economy is based on revenue from oil .
And in the UK the public pays more in tax on road fuels than any other item .

But still the greenies come out with the ridiculous lie that fossil fuels are subsidised .
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:13 (Ref:3751722)   #37
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i'm concerned about the extra strain on the uk power grid considering we don't have much room for power use growth as it is and there doesn't seem to be much ambition from the govt to do anything about it.

but from a personal perspective, electric cars can't cover my really long journey in one hit habits, so i can't consider them for now. however i can fully see the merit and if i was rich i'd be all over a tesla even if they do look a bit like a jag
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:21 (Ref:3751728)   #38
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i'm concerned about the extra strain on the uk power grid considering we don't have much room for power use growth as it is and there doesn't seem to be much ambition from the govt to do anything about it.

but from a personal perspective, electric cars can't cover my really long journey in one hit habits, so i can't consider them for now. however i can fully see the merit and if i was rich i'd be all over a tesla even if they do look a bit like a jag
It takes 6kwh of energy to refine a gallon of petrol, purely from the refining phase. This does not include the energy required to support the refining, such as feeding workers on site, running the sites facilities, transporting the petrol to the petrol station, running the petrol station, and the wear and tear on roads from tankers. Once that's calculated in, refining petrol takes significantly more energy than powering an electric car.

If everybody was to stop using petrol cars and start using electric overnight, the grid would have less overall strain on it. It would see a different peaks and troughs pattern though. Charging overnight might be higher but that could also balance out the problems we have with peaks during the day and needing to shutdown energy production at times. But even if there was extra strain, that's no reason not to progress. Progression should never stop because governments are lazy. When electric cars take off, improvments will be made to the grid.


Once an electric car can do 300 miles on a charge and recharge in 30 minutes, that's the magic number for extended long journeys. And Teslas can do that. Teslas are currently expensive but the Model 3 is $35k, and the Model Y is rumoured to be cheaper. At that point, suddenly it is viable. And those days are coming within a decade.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:41 (Ref:3751740)   #39
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i'm concerned about the extra strain on the uk power grid

but from a personal perspective, electric cars can't cover my really long journey in one hit habits, so i can't consider them for now. however i can fully see the merit and if i was rich i'd be all over a tesla even if they do look a bit like a jag
The estate my workshop is on is all solar panelled and also has a big solar farm behind, so a lot if the time we are supplying the grid. I can charge my car during the day if required without using 'mains' power....

When I'm racing, it's means using the truck or van and trailer. For other life, an EV fits perfectly. Yes, I'd also love a Tesla, but when the time comes to change there will be many other interesting options, I'm sure!
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:46 (Ref:3751742)   #40
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But Mike, that's silly. You could just build your own oil refinery and oil and gas platform and get cheap fuel that way. Having your own power supply is silly, not sustainable and too expensive!
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:52 (Ref:3751746)   #41
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But Mike, that's silly. You could just build your own oil refinery and oil and gas platform and get cheap fuel that way. Having your own power supply is silly, not sustainable and too expensive!
They're dismantling old North Sea platforms at Gt Yarmouth now, so that could be an idea......

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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:54 (Ref:3751749)   #42
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They recently took the top sides off the Brent Delta. Not sure where it went but I considered putting it in the field out back and getting a black and decker drill out.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 14:59 (Ref:3751755)   #43
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That is very true .
Oil Companies par far higher rates of tax , [ & much more of it ] , than just about any other business . Some countries whole economy is based on revenue from oil .
And in the UK the public pays more in tax on road fuels than any other item .

But still the greenies come out with the ridiculous lie that fossil fuels are subsidised .
Not so in the UK, any more, Tel. The UK's North Sea oil and gas production, not necessarily the refining of same, now receives more in subsidiaries than the Exchequer receives tax. And as long as there is a glut of petro-carbons that is likely to continue.

As to the comments about certain production facilities being "carbon neutral", this doesn't necessarily mean that the production of the raw materials, and the transport of them, is carbon neutral.

And there often comes a point at which increasing production necessitates using power from traditional sources. I personally know of one manufacturer that for over a hundred years had produced all their electricity from their own water recourses, but had to move and join the national grid when their production reached a certain level.

By the way, I am not a greenie. back in the 60s and 70s I argued against the drive towards using recycled paper for packaging, because it requires far more power to produce a tonne of recycled paper than it would to produce a tonne of plastic. And they wouldn't need to use all the noxious substances that are needed to recycle the stuff that goes into recycled paper.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 15:09 (Ref:3751758)   #44
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As to the comments about certain production facilities being "carbon neutral", this doesn't necessarily mean that the production of the raw materials, and the transport of them, is carbon neutral.
Nobody said it was. However the hydrocarbon industry is certainly not carbon neutral in any format. So even if you only move the factories to a carbon neutral state, it's still a significant improvement. Isn't that what his is about? Improving our world. Improving living conditions. Improving vehicles. Improving the chance of having a sustainable energy source. I don't think any technology in any industry claims to be absolutely perfect but that doesn't mean the advantages don't exist.

This comes up a lot when discussing electric cars. This stance that if they are not the answer to absolutely everything single problem, and not gods gift to clean energy, the motoring world, and starving children in Africa, then it isn't worth doing. Yet they are a significant improvement in pretty much every area and are progressing at a rate that the car industry has never seem in its entire history, and people still argue against them.

Notice how we've moved to discussing climate, despite the Pro electric car posters not even bringing it up.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 18:10 (Ref:3751923)   #45
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. Yet they are a significant improvement in pretty much every area and are progressing at a rate that the car industry has never seem in its entire history, and people still argue against them.

.
Incidentally I take it you have an all electric car then ?
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