Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Racing Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Apr 2006, 16:55 (Ref:1578690)   #1
breezeblock
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Scotland
stirlingshire
Posts: 79
breezeblock should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
twitchy steering

put a bit more camber on the front wheels and the steering has went twitchy at speed adjusted tracking and its not really any better any suggestions camber has went from 0.75 deg to 2
breezeblock is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Apr 2006, 22:15 (Ref:1579004)   #2
Mackmot
Veteran
 
Mackmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
United Kingdom
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 2,188
Mackmot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
bump steer, read about it.
Mackmot is offline  
__________________
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Quote
Old 12 Apr 2006, 08:51 (Ref:1579257)   #3
Chris Y
Nature's servant
Veteran
 
Chris Y's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
United Kingdom
Over there, over here
Posts: 4,380
Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!Chris Y has a real shot at the championship!
You're also reducing the contact patch on the front wheels - this will make the car more twitchy, as there's less resistance to little bumps in the road that want to push the car sideways.
Chris Y is offline  
__________________
This planet is mildly noted for its hoopy casinos.
Quote
Old 12 Apr 2006, 16:20 (Ref:1579562)   #4
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Do you have enough caster dialled in, the more the better the straight line stability and camber gain in cornering, maybe you set up alterered the caster when adjusting the camber, you have to be careful about that on my early Camaro.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 12 Apr 2006, 17:40 (Ref:1579624)   #5
breezeblock
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Scotland
stirlingshire
Posts: 79
breezeblock should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackmot
bump steer, read about it.
definanately not bump steer will try a bit more caster though
breezeblock is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Apr 2006, 07:03 (Ref:1580093)   #6
greenamex2
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
England
Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,686
greenamex2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The rule of thumb is around two degrees of caster for every degree of camber.

On a very front light car (eg mid engined or Caterfield) then double that to four degrees of caster for every degree of camber but then you shouldn't have much camber because, hopefully, the suspension has been designed properly.
greenamex2 is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Apr 2006, 07:06 (Ref:1580098)   #7
graham bahr
Veteran
 
graham bahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
England
cambs
Posts: 2,071
graham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgraham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
ok you reset the tracking, but with such a big camber change you might need to reduce the toe setting a bit
graham bahr is offline  
__________________
AKA Guru

its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it!
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2006, 15:44 (Ref:1585871)   #8
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not many cars are designed with 2 deg static neg camber,so you are too far off standard geometry for sensitive straight line feel,the desired alignment between inner lower control arm bushes and the inner tie rod ball joints[ as a straight line],which stops bump steer,may be not quite right.If you run toe out like many racers this won't help either. The Ackerman angle requires a straight line between centre of rear axle,outer rod end balljoint and lower steering pivot point.Hard to measure at home but easy to stuff up.Go too far from standard and the car doesn"t know which front wheel to follow.Better to run less camber,more caster and a smidgin of toe in.
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2006, 16:40 (Ref:1586877)   #9
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Well I was hitting some high mph at Brands GP in my IROC on Saturday and I have just wound 3 degrees camber on the front and it was as straight as an arrow and it was not chewing up my tyres or understeering either. As a matter of interest what car is it?
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2006, 22:58 (Ref:1587190)   #10
graham bahr
Veteran
 
graham bahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
England
cambs
Posts: 2,071
graham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgraham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i was nudging 140mph with 2.5 degrees neg camber, 9 degrees castor 2mm toe in and i had excellent straight line stability, no cornering problems and no tyre wear issues
graham bahr is offline  
__________________
AKA Guru

its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it!
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 02:29 (Ref:1587256)   #11
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by graham bahr
i was nudging 140mph with 2.5 degrees neg camber, 9 degrees castor 2mm toe in and i had excellent straight line stability, no cornering problems and no tyre wear issues
You and Al obviously have very well set up cars--Al last year didn't you have some tyre chewing issues? Interesting to see Graham you run a little toe in, not everyone does ,it seems right to me.Were your caster/camber settings attained without post-factory mods?
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 20:20 (Ref:1587935)   #12
graham bahr
Veteran
 
graham bahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
England
cambs
Posts: 2,071
graham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgraham bahr should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i have a set of blank universal top mounts, i get the strut where i want it, then drill through the top mount holes in the bodysheel into the top mount and then tap a thread in the hole.

a little toe in is or was generally always the way to go on a rwd car, its nice and stable and the tyre temps say its good too.

i always toe fwd cars out a bit, it helps traction and turn in, although too much particlary on a lower powered car will cost straight line speed
graham bahr is offline  
__________________
AKA Guru

its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it!
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 20:35 (Ref:1587955)   #13
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Yes it was wearing the front tyre very quickly which is why I increased it on this car, I just simply redrilled the fletch panels. On the yellow car that was also chewing tyres but I have done a number on that, the caster was miles out and I was actually getting negetive camber gain in cornering, its much better now and again as straight as an arrow with nearly 3 degrees on the front.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 19 Apr 2006, 04:34 (Ref:1588290)   #14
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Yes it was wearing the front tyre very quickly which is why I increased it on this car, I just simply redrilled the fletch panels. On the yellow car that was also chewing tyres but I have done a number on that, the caster was miles out and I was actually getting negetive camber gain in cornering, its much better now and again as straight as an arrow with nearly 3 degrees on the front.
Thanks for your replies Al and Graham--Al did you mean you WERE getting POSITIVE camber gain ?? Neg gain is whats desirable ,I thought , in corners.
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Apr 2006, 21:23 (Ref:1590215)   #15
breezeblock
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Scotland
stirlingshire
Posts: 79
breezeblock should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
put some more front caster on it . the top wishbones were adjusted to the max so i had to turn a bit off the adjusters has made a heck of a difference a lot more stable but it made the oversteer worse so had to put more camber on the back to counteract this with much success
breezeblock is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Apr 2006, 21:26 (Ref:1590221)   #16
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny yuma
Thanks for your replies Al and Graham--Al did you mean you WERE getting POSITIVE camber gain ?? Neg gain is whats desirable ,I thought , in corners.
Yes thats correct, I had 0 degrees castor on one side and about 2 degrees the wrong way the other side, not good! Now I have it set at about 3 or 4 degrees both sides I get about 1.5 degrees camber change in the right direction (i.e. negative).
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 21 Apr 2006, 09:21 (Ref:1590617)   #17
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Al have a look back thru a message I sent you last year for photos of type of early fifties Australian Holden Peter Brock is bringing to Goodwood Revival to take on the mighty Morris Minor,Austin A30,Riley and Jaguar. You heard it first from J.Yuma.
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Apr 2006, 10:09 (Ref:1590673)   #18
greenamex2
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
England
Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,686
greenamex2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Yes thats correct, I had 0 degrees castor on one side and about 2 degrees the wrong way the other side, not good! Now I have it set at about 3 or 4 degrees both sides I get about 1.5 degrees camber change in the right direction (i.e. negative).
Funnily enough that matches the '2 degrees of castor for 1 degree of camber' rule of thumb!
greenamex2 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steering Wheels andypipe Racers Forum 2 20 Jan 2006 19:51
USB Steering Wheel and PS2 jiminee Virtual Racers 4 17 Apr 2005 23:09
Steering Wheels for GPL MrBluesman1 Virtual Racers 20 23 Nov 2003 18:41
Steering Wheel Hybrid Virtual Racers 12 20 Sep 2003 15:43
PS2 Steering wheels?? touringlegend Virtual Racers 9 7 Jan 2003 12:34


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.