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Old 4 Sep 2012, 18:17 (Ref:3130701)   #2526
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What about the rest of'em ?
Strakka is self-funded through Nick Leventis, JRM... probably through any sort of profits from their other racing endeavors (i.e. building and selling the GT3 Nissan) and maybe some personal sponsorship from Karun.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 22:40 (Ref:3130873)   #2527
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JRM as a business sells more than just the GT3 GTR, they are also the Mitsubishi UK rally arm and sell a huge amount of aftermarket parts for JDM cars in the UK.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:34 (Ref:3130961)   #2528
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Strakka is self-funded through Nick Leventis, JRM... probably through any sort of profits from their other racing endeavors (i.e. building and selling the GT3 Nissan) and maybe some personal sponsorship from Karun.
Strakka is also sponsored by Relentless Energy Drink which is a Coca-Cola brand. They have been sponsored by them ever since they debut with Aston in GT1(yeah that was a long long time ago )
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:39 (Ref:3130964)   #2529
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I understand wanting to be in the top class ..... but Its hard to attract sponsors if you admit to them first , you will only be an also ran .
I think this is a good point. If the regulations advantage of Privateers comes to fruition then we should simply see the class grow on itself. Privateers doing well makes more privateers interested. I guess the tough part is maybe they can have Sucess when only Audi is at the event and Audi screws up but when we are talking about Audi, Porsche, Toyota, and possibly many more big name manufacturers it seems like a pretty tall mountain to climb to ever win a race regardless of the regulations. All those teams would have to screw up on all 4 of there cars. LMP1 can look pretty daunting. All credit and thanks to the current privateers and some of the past that have stuck with the sport.

I always love that moment when a team brings a sponsor a big win. Like when Falken Tire Motorsports won at Mid-Ohio then again in Baltimore. That was a big deal because the gaol is to win. When you achieve the goal its hard to leave but you want more instead. A championship for Falken possible in 2013-14.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:33 (Ref:3130988)   #2530
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Originally Posted by Articus View Post
Privateers doing well makes more privateers interested. I guess the tough part is maybe they can have Sucess when only Audi is at the event and Audi screws up but when we are talking about Audi, Porsche, Toyota, and possibly many more big name manufacturers it seems like a pretty tall mountain to climb to ever win a race regardless of the regulations. All those teams would have to screw up on all 4 of there cars. LMP1 can look pretty daunting. All credit and thanks to the current privateers and some of the past that have stuck with the sport.
I think you'll find that there won't be any privateer LMP1's for 2014, unless they are somehow privately modified LMP2's, or home builts. With only the WEC running LMP1 now, there is no market for LMP1 privateer cars, so it seems probable they won't get built. Either the manufacturers will have to sell cars, or they'll be the only ones racing.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:36 (Ref:3130990)   #2531
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Did they change the rules so that privateers are 50kgs lighter than manufacturers starting in 2014?

850kgs for manufacturers and 800kgs for privateers? or are privateers still at 830kgs?
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:57 (Ref:3130995)   #2532
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Did they change the rules so that privateers are 50kgs lighter than manufacturers starting in 2014?

850kgs for manufacturers and 800kgs for privateers? or are privateers still at 830kgs?

What does it matter really? Who will invest the money to design and build a privateer car, when there are currently only FOUR privateer cars running in the WEC, the only series that will have that class soon.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:00 (Ref:3130996)   #2533
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I think you'll find that there won't be any privateer LMP1's for 2014, unless they are somehow privately modified LMP2's, or home builts. With only the WEC running LMP1 now, there is no market for LMP1 privateer cars, so it seems probable they won't get built. Either the manufacturers will have to sell cars, or they'll be the only ones racing.
So how is the WEC safe? I questioned its viability in another thread.

Yeah, it's likely going to be ok for 2014 and a few years after. I know this is pretty long term in sportscar racing, but say, 5 years from now, what manufacturers are going to be left in P1? How many people will be on the grid for the full season even in 2014?
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:01 (Ref:3130997)   #2534
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What does it matter really? Who will invest the money to design and build a privateer car, when there are currently only FOUR privateer cars running in the WEC, the only series that will have that class soon.
How is it any different from HRT, Marussia, Caterham? Just because its the only series with the class does not mean no one want to build the car. Its the 24 hours of Le Mans at stake... Oak have said they will make a 2014 coupe I am not sure if you missed that a few days ago.
Lotus are also *trying* to get a 2014 P1 ready and the program is supposedly real, CFD and 50% windtunnel developed from a post in one of these threads.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:07 (Ref:3131001)   #2535
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What can be done to lower costs for LMP1 without ruining technology and innovation?

Costs caps would be hard to enforce as Audi could do fancy accounting all throughout their VW brand to hide costs.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:10 (Ref:3131002)   #2536
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How is it any different from HRT, Marussia, Caterham? Just because its the only series with the class does not mean no one want to build the car. Its the 24 hours of Le Mans at stake... Oak have said they will make a 2014 coupe I am not sure if you missed that a few days ago.
Lotus are also *trying* to get a 2014 P1 ready and the program is supposedly real, CFD and 50% windtunnel developed from a post in one of these threads.
As I said above, there is no market to sell them, so they'll have to be home builts basically... meaning if Oak wants to race, Oak has to build their own car. All the power to them if they do, but it is most certainly not an economic business model to sell such chassis to customers... for their own interests sure.. Then what engine do they use? There is no market for people to develop engines for the category either. It starts to become VERY expensive when you have to build your own cars, and pay to have an engine developed as well.

You've basically limited the category to manufacturers, or entrants who can afford to build their own chassis, and pay for the development of their own engine. You've really capped the category to the number of future entrants.


...and now you know why some people were arguing the need for strong regional series...

Lucky that Grand Am is likely to adopt the GTE category, as you'd pretty much be burying that too, being forced to switch to some GT3 category.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:27 (Ref:3131007)   #2537
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ACO has said that GT3 cars will not race at Le Mans time and time again. Also if you don't plan on spending money then I think that team owner is in the wrong sport. Owners know that Motor Racing is one of the most expensive sports. When you make X amount of dollars and can spend it on whatever its up to Oak or a Rebellion to do what they please with it.

Like I also said LMP customer chassis is not dead. Oak, Lotus, and even Honda/WR. In addition to grand fathering.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:42 (Ref:3131008)   #2538
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ACO has said that GT3 cars will not race at Le Mans time and time again. Also if you don't plan on spending money then I think that team owner is in the wrong sport. Owners know that Motor Racing is one of the most expensive sports. When you make X amount of dollars and can spend it on whatever its up to Oak or a Rebellion to do what they please with it.

Like I also said LMP customer chassis is not dead. Oak, Lotus, and even Honda/WR. In addition to grand fathering.
The ACO may have to change their mind at some point here... categories eventually will change... always do.

Oak, Lotus and WR? Things have changed in the last couple of days... Wishes and dreams don't always come true, particularly when you've just decreased a very small marketplace by 50%.

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Old 5 Sep 2012, 04:52 (Ref:3131010)   #2539
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^ Oak may be the exception. Jacques will develop his own P1 and if he can sell one or 2 he may do so to subsidize his own racing. I think at $2.5 million for a P1 HPD has already factored in the fact the may only sell a handful as well. I admit though the development of that car may be a toe-in-the-water exercise for Honda to return as a works effort in 2014 as is rumoured from time to time by Graham Goodwin.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 05:08 (Ref:3131011)   #2540
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As I said above, there is no market to sell them, so they'll have to be home builts basically... meaning if Oak wants to race, Oak has to build their own car. All the power to them if they do, but it is most certainly not an economic business model to sell such chassis to customers... for their own interests sure.. Then what engine do they use? There is no market for people to develop engines for the category either. It starts to become VERY expensive when you have to build your own cars, and pay to have an engine developed as well.

You've basically limited the category to manufacturers, or entrants who can afford to build their own chassis, and pay for the development of their own engine. You've really capped the category to the number of future entrants.


...and now you know why some people were arguing the need for strong regional series...

Lucky that Grand Am is likely to adopt the GTE category, as you'd pretty much be burying that too, being forced to switch to some GT3 category.
What about when Porsche return, they're not usually shy about selling their cars to privateers? Granted, that won't be until 2015 probably.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 07:19 (Ref:3131061)   #2541
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when you've just decreased a very small marketplace by 50%.
They were in trouble anyway if the ALMS was 50% of their market... On the other hand - MM and Dyson bought A LOT of new cars over the years, so you might be somewhat right.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 08:21 (Ref:3131095)   #2542
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Another point , you cant allow manufacturers to have an advantage over the privateer , such as hybrid systems , thats not supplying a fair playing field .

All for one , one for all , or get rid of it .
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 08:36 (Ref:3131104)   #2543
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Another point , you cant allow manufacturers to have an advantage over the privateer , such as hybrid systems , thats not supplying a fair playing field .

All for one , one for all , or get rid of it .
I agree, things are weighted in favour of works teams as it is, in terms of resources etc, and the fact that they actually built the cars. They don't need extra help. And the upstart victory from the keen, underfunded privateer is part of the fun, and what interesting stories are made of. A class is a class, you shouldn't have a class within a class, if that makes sense!
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 08:46 (Ref:3131114)   #2544
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Private teams are allowed hybrid systems. If they can't get one they run less weight and are allowed more fuel flow.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 08:52 (Ref:3131123)   #2545
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its funny how you guys get upset on how cars aren't similar to their competitor... with more backing then others , causing some drivers to go better in the races then the "lesser" guys.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 15:33 (Ref:3131386)   #2546
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If you look at the period prior to the ALMS, the only place to race an LMP1, or then LMP900, was a single race, Le Mans.

Other than a 2-3 year period in the LMS when you had Creation, Courage, Epsilon, Lister, Lavaggi and others (many of which failed and bankrupted their owners), in addition to manufacturers and regulars still here today, the number of regular competing LMP teams has not been much more than a dozen across the world. That dozen included the various P900/P675/P1/P2 crossovers which often created competition between cars that wasn't always envisaged.

It's true to say P1 is becoming more exclusive and manufacturer focused, but prototype racing as a whole now constitutes 70% of a typical WEC field. When regional P2 entrants are factored in you'll be looking at 40 active prototypes, that's before the ALMS/GA merger is taken into account. If successful and ACO compatible that could add another 20 plus prorotypes to the mix.

The recent past has seen an over supply of underdeveloped P1's and P2's, at a time when privateers where taking greater interest in GT's. Now the depth of the prototype field is providing a good market for constructors (it should be a stable market with it's cost-capping rules), you will see teams develop to the point they have the financial power and technical capability to take on the greater challenge of P1. I don't like F1 comparisons due to the negative connotations, but if the prize is big enough teams will compete, minor placings become worthwhile targets and yearly competition in a stable framework allows teams to move up and down the grid like true sport should be.

You're never going to get 30+ single class P1's but if you have a factory field, a few customers, and a handful using Wirth (Honda?), Oak (Morgan/Renault/Nissan?) or whatever, that would be compelling viewing.

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Old 6 Sep 2012, 00:26 (Ref:3131713)   #2547
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There are some 24 F1 cars being raced at a time.
10 WRC spec cars. Exclusivity doesn't appear to be an issue.
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 00:28 (Ref:3131715)   #2548
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Yeah but F1 has a great worldwide TV deal.
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 12:06 (Ref:3131977)   #2549
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^ Oak may be the exception. Jacques will develop his own P1 and if he can sell one or 2 he may do so to subsidize his own racing. I think at $2.5 million for a P1 HPD has already factored in the fact the may only sell a handful as well. I admit though the development of that car may be a toe-in-the-water exercise for Honda to return as a works effort in 2014 as is rumoured from time to time by Graham Goodwin.
Oak will only build their 2014 P1 if they can find a technical partner - If Honda are coming in any factory sense in the near future it won't be in LMP1 - They'd love to be there but have no budget to do it
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 12:10 (Ref:3131979)   #2550
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Yeah but F1 has a great worldwide TV deal.
Because it has a global audience aided in no small part by the powers that be strangling competition from other forms of motorsport.

Not helped by a refusal by many in the sport to invest in building an audience and relying instead on second or third tier deals
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