[WEC] Kolles Prototype

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Giba

Just to double check this but with LMP1-H and LMP1-L being merged this year, are the points given out for the privateer entries for there position in the LMP1 class as a whole?

The reason is that if it ran under the system last year then as long as the CLM finished the first two races, it would have a nice lead going into Le Mans already. However, if points are given out how I think they are then the benefit of being at the first two races and rebellion not is less.

Stupidly they haven't been merged at all and privateers still get their sub trophy awards, the only difference is that they've renamed LMP1-L as 'non'-hybrid' and don't necessarily show them as separate in general (TV graphics) classifications. So basically it's the same exact thing still and Kolles will automatically get full 1st place points from first two events, instead of placed behind the factories

[pirenzo]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Stupidly they haven't been merged at all and privateers still get their sub trophy awards, the only difference is that they've renamed LMP1-L as 'non'-hybrid' and don't necessarily show them as separate in general (TV graphics) classifications. So basically it's the same exact thing still and Kolles will automatically get full 1st place points from first two events, instead of placed behind the factories

Gotta be in it to win it though? The problem isn't that full points are on offer, the problem is the competition is non-existent.

They deserve something for showing up IMO. Ideally there should be another couple of cars in the class and they should all show up for all the races. You don't encourage that by letting absent teams off the hook.

[Giba]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Stupidly they haven't been merged at all and privateers still get their sub trophy awards, the only difference is that they've renamed LMP1-L as 'non'-hybrid' and don't necessarily show them as separate in general (TV graphics) classifications. So basically it's the same exact thing still and Kolles will automatically get full 1st place points from first two events, instead of placed behind the factories

Thanks for that Chiana, I thought the differences were greater but that must of been wishful thinking. However in that case, it could make the privateer battle very interesting later in the season.

[Deleted]

If you demanded same people to turn up at all races by law you would have even less cars lining up. Force mandating and restricting is for F1.

I admire what these teams do but IMO they should just have one overall classification like they used to and have the cars receiving points they deserve. It's not really that degrading to receive points for place 8 when you're sth like 10 laps down and big audience isn't gonna pay attention to your meaningless sub class anyway. Placing as highest privateer in the overall sheets is honor itself. Then you could hand away one special trophy for being best privateer at the end of the year when it's all over, not for actual championship or anything but just to show that we do care about you. Then the team in question could show that off in their PR. But that's it.

Everyones probably tired of hearing me say this over and over again, but if they just allowed P1 privateers back to ELMS I'm 100% sure things would improve. No one can even counter-argument that with P2-quality-field excuses anymore now that their boring spec route structure is public knowledge. Who cares if couple of spec Orecas don't turn up for not being treated as first class queens for the first time since 2011.

Anyway putting that all aside, Rebellion vs Kolles should be very interesting this season. Even if Kolles gets those early extra points Rebellion will surely have more reliable running at Le Mans, *because of statistics*, and with those likely double points have pretty equal chances for taking higher placing in the post LM period

[TF110]

They still get 'overall' points and points to their sub-class. Why the big sigh that they get a subclass? Until the rules are reworked to let private lmp1 teams have a chance to win they deserve their 'L' title.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

They still get 'overall' points and points to their sub-class. Why the big sigh that they get a subclass? Until the rules are reworked to let private lmp1 teams have a chance to win they deserve their 'L' title.

No they don't, just like last year they only receive points for the sub class order.

And in the official timing sheets - as proved by Prologue test results today - they still don't show all the cars as LMP1's, now the 'L' initial might be gone but the hybrid cars are still called as "LMP1-H" and non-hybrids are just "LMP1. Okay... the change requested by Nicolet did absolute nothing. But maybe the TV ratings fix it.

As for Kolles pace so far today... ehhhhhhh...

[Pontlieue]

Absolutely no visible improvements on pace for the CLM. It's still running exactly the same times as an LMP2 car. And its top speed is 20km/h faster than the LMP2 cars, so the car obviously lacks downforce.

[Deleted]

Would've been fun to see if the "Lotus"-Kodewa LMP2 was still around and was lapping faster than CLM

[templer]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

Absolutely no visible improvements on pace for the CLM. It's still running exactly the same times as an LMP2 car. And its top speed is 20km/h faster than the LMP2 cars, so the car obviously lacks downforce.

What have they changed on the car. Front suspension nothing is visible. The only aero change are new rear wing endplates and maybe a new wing. I have really expected a major aero update and this is really disappointing.

Once more a lost chance

[Deleted]

CLM AER had 3rd fastest maximum speed on their debut at 5,5km CotA last year, and were around +12 seconds off in qualifying. Now on 5,7km test circuit they're almost 30kph off in maximum speed behind all the factory cars and +12 seconds off in time.

Looking good...

[templer]

Originally Posted by Chiana

CLM AER had 3rd fastest maximum speed on their debut at 5,5km CotA last year, and were around +12 seconds off in qualifying. Now on 5,7km test circuit they're almost 30kph off in maximum speed behind all the factory cars and +12 seconds off in time.

Looking good...

The car run for the first time so maybe still a lot adjustment work to do. But in my opinion the CLM is insufficient in aerodynamics. They run a very steep rear wing flap angle and the largest gurneyflap on the tail of all teams. I would say about 100 to 150 mm high. So the car has clearly more drag than other cars but has also not the downforce levels.

I have had hopes they have realized this problem and had developed a new aero. But nothing happened.

The story of Kodewa. The T128 had not enough the downforce, the Lotus P01/1 had not enough downforce an now the ByKolles had not enough downforce. Very great job !!!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No they don't, just like last year they only receive points for the sub class order.

And in the official timing sheets - as proved by Prologue test results today - they still don't show all the cars as LMP1's, now the 'L' initial might be gone but the hybrid cars are still called as "LMP1-H" and non-hybrids are just "LMP1. Okay... the change requested by Nicolet did absolute nothing. But maybe the TV ratings fix it.

As for Kolles pace so far today... ehhhhhhh...

So if they magically place 2nd overall, the points won't reflect that?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

So if they magically place 2nd overall, the points won't reflect that?

Nope, only points for how they place in the sub trophy class. They still don't share any common results with the factory cars, apart from overall classification sheet like all the rest of the classes. You know, like LMP2. Even if they won Le Mans overall with unicorn witchcraft, they'd just get the same Endurance Trophy points than if they beat Rebellion with 9th place finish, nothing else... so it's still, literally (and as the WEC timing classification proves), different class entirely, despite what ACO talked over winter.

[carbon_titanium]

does anybody know if the car will be this year equipped with a 7 speed GB or they will stick with the old lotus lmp2 6 speed GB

[Deleted]

The old Hewland gearbox from last year (that was prob the same as in P2?) has been changed to Xtrac, that's all I know

[templer]

Motorsport-total reports that ByKolles run the old version of their car as the changed gearbox and the new rear suspension required a new crashtest, which is not done yet. The "new" version should be homologated next week.

[rich07]

So the car at Prologue is last years car with this years livery?

If so it's good news as we should see some certain improvement with the new car then

[Deleted]

So maybe the 'updates' bring them above P2s finally...

Makes today seem lightly less terrible for them.

[TF110]

Hope they get it on track before Silverstone. I want a good showing. By that I mean ahead of lmp2.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by templer

Motorsport-total reports that ByKolles run the old version of their car as the changed gearbox and the new rear suspension required a new crashtest, which is not done yet. The "new" version should be homologated next week.

The cynic in me might question if that is PR fluff.

[tux]

Interesting that during the day the rear wing changed from being full yellow/fluorescent to half orange & half yellow/flourescent, so maybe the team were able to try different wings/designs.

Not far off the Audis in straight line speed but light years away in lap time, the thing must be a dog in the corners.

[TF110]

Autosport saying the new car did run.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Autosport saying the new car did run.

Which contradicts what motorsport-total.cm have been reporting.

[tux]

Better pace today only 3 tenths from the top of LMP2.

[ger80]

1.46 - clear of LMP2