[Tech Issue] 2014 Pre Season Testing Thread

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by TheNo1F1Fan

Was that Ricciardo who crashed?

Yes.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Over the past year on this sub-forum I've seen more posts such as your own complaining about us complaining than posts including complaining about the sport itself.

Complainception

Indeed. Does my head in.

[Knowlesy]

AUTOSPORT's F1 technical expert Gary Anderson looks at the problems the world champion squad is having.

The reason for the stoppage hasn't yet emerged, but this is worrying for Red Bull given that the new RB10 has managed a grand total of 11 complete laps in two-and-a-half days.

The technical rumour mill in the paddock suggests that Renault is less than pleased with Red Bull's installation of the control electronics in its 2014 car.

While this is just a rumour, Red Bull has done the fewest laps of any of the teams that has run so far, so it's clear something has gone wrong.

Changing an installation like this is not easy because there simply is not any spare space left over in a car, which means if this is at the root of the problem Red Bull will almost certainly have to make a fix work with what space it has.

Not too much later...

Ted Kravitz ‏@tedkravitz

Lots of drilling in RB pit. Seems turbo and battery control unit packaging is too tight, not a Renault prob

Whoops!

[F1Pete]

You know, in years past it was often easy to predict which team(s) was going to be the front runner(s) based on pre-season testing. So far with the testing chaos, does anyone think there will be any surprises?

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Yes.

Thanks!

[Knowlesy]

Newey and Horner have already left the circuit apparently, so RBR are toast. A wasted week.

They've done less mileage than the recovery vehicles.

EDIT - Magnussen has surpassed them in less than an hour.

[Richard C]

I have no idea how this work, but would a company like Renault review the proposed packaging of the powertrain components by looking over a given team's design before it was created, or would they just have experts available to answer questions as needed. In short, do they give teams a rope to hang themselves, babysit (look over shoulder), or something in between?

And I assume that there is a basic set of specs/documentation that comes with each powertrain. Stuff like "3 mm of space around this area", "X amount of cooling needed here", "Install this side up!"

I can imagine private finger pointing between RBR and Renault.

Renault: We told you not to do that!
RBR: You never said that? You specs clearly allows it!

Richard

[brandscooper]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Over the past year on this sub-forum I've seen more posts such as your own complaining about us complaining than posts including complaining about the sport itself.

Complainception

Ooooh, you got me. Well done.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I have no idea how this work, but would a company like Renault review the proposed packaging of the powertrain components by looking over a given team's design before it was created, or would they just have experts available to answer questions as needed. In short, do they give teams a rope to hang themselves, babysit (look over shoulder), or something in between?

And I assume that there is a basic set of specs/documentation that comes with each powertrain. Stuff like "3 mm of space around this area", "X amount of cooling needed here", "Install this side up!"

I can imagine private finger pointing between RBR and Renault.

Renault: We told you not to do that!
RBR: You never said that? You specs clearly allows it!

Richard

Your question puts me in mind to the situation last year, in particular, between the teams and Pirelli. It would seem, or so it is alleged, that Pirelli provided all the teams with the operating parameters for the tyres supplied, i.e. pressures, camber, etc.,and that it is further alleged that certain teams chose to ignore the advice/instructions of Pirelli. And it was alleged that because those teams were operating the tyres ouside of the operating parameters that they were experiencing tyre failures.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe that Adrian Newey may have have ignored/over-ridden Renault's engine or exhaust "packaging" in the last couple of years in his obsession to wrap everything up tightly. And this was the cause of overheating problems that RBR had during early testing.

It would seem to me, and I am certainly not an expert, that the main problems that the Renault-engined teams are suffering from stem from over-heating. One wonders whether Renault, at the insistance of their "premier" team, have attempted to wrap up the power-unit (it is no longer just a petrol driven engine) into a much too small package which is leadind to the results that we are now witnessing.

[Kempi]

Newey did design that McLaren that never actually saw a Grand Prix because it always burned up during testing. So as creative as he is, did he do it again?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Are Lotus using Renault engines this year?
Has it been confirmed?

im pretty sure there is a Renault badge on the picture they released of the 2014 Lotus but im not sure if that can be counted as confirmation.

Richard and Mike...interesting questions about where the blame lies. on one hand Newey does like to push the envelope but considering that Caterham are supposedly having similar problems and imo since they lack the same technical ability to be as aggressive with their packaging that could suggest the gremlins could be unrelated to setup and something inherent with the Renault power plants. also just speculating of course.

curious to see if Lotus have similar problems once they get on track...provided they have Renault power that is.

[juicy sushi]

I think Renault under-estimated the cooling requirements of their powertrain, since all the Renault teams are having issues. I think Red Bull's are being compounded by the team being overly aggressive on packaging beyond what other teams attempted.

How fast can these issues get corrected, and can the parts be ready for the Bahrain test?

[wolfhound]

From reading Gary Anderson's comments and what Renault are saying there are a number of different issues cropping up that are mostly electronic/software related. The problem for Renault and their teams is they are different ones.
However there appears to also be an overheating issue with Red Bull's car as well. Torro Rosso seem to have less problems than the other Renault teams.
I suspect Enstone are going to have a few when they appear in Bahrain as well.

[Casper]

I guess I was right when I posted that a few days testing was nowhere near enough and totally stupid. Some would say it is good but as this is supposed to be the epitome of automotive expertise it starts to make F1 look stupid in any number of ways.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im pretty sure there is a Renault badge on the picture they released of the 2014 Lotus but im not sure if that can be counted as confirmation.

curious to see if Lotus have similar problems once they get on track...provided they have Renault power that is.

There was an interview with Renault's Rob White about what the costs of missing the first test would be for Lotus in Autosport, which would be a strange thing to do if they weren't running Renault powerplants...

[321Go]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Caterham CT05 and the Toro Rosso STR9 running Red Bull Technology drivelines? And some other systems purchased from RB Technology too?

If the RB10, CT05 and the STR9 are all having similar issues, which seems to relate to an overheating problem, then Bahrain's weather will really be a test for them.

If the RB10 overheats in the cool Jerez weather during the out lap, then it should be interesting when RBR qualifies front row and has to wait for the other cars to form the grid. Then again, it'll probably only be Ricciardo's car that breaks down. RBR is most likely to use his car as a test mule.

[steve nielsen]

The Torro Rosso's Renault enigine doesn't sound verry happy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMaovFFkNLQ

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

The Torro Rosso's Renault enigine does'nt sound verry happy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMaovFFkNLQ

Might that be a car problem? I'm unsure about that.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Caterham CT05 and the Toro Rosso STR9 running Red Bull Technology drivelines? And some other systems purchased from RB Technology too?

If the RB10, CT05 and the STR9 are all having similar issues, which seems to relate to an overheating problem, then Bahrain's weather will really be a test for them.

Standard procedure for Adrian Newey is to design the car and then force everything else [i.e. engine, transmission, KERS, driver etc...] to compromise around it. I wouldn't be surprised if this is at the heart of the Renault/RBR based 'installation' related problems.

[bella]

and i guess it's fair to say that losing the kers system through overheating the past few years has been a gamble they decided was worth making. this year presumably the techno-gubbins overheating has far more significant consequences than just losing a bit of power.

perhaps renault got it a bit wrong, but red bull are suffering especially because as davyboy says, tight packaging and heat control is the exact thing they compramise on.

[F1Pete]

Interesting quote from Bernie...“The whole thing with the new engines is totally absurd. People want noise – something special, that's what F1 is all about – and now we have quiet engines and nobody on the track.”

[steve nielsen]

Bianchi just set a lap fast enough to make the Red Bull RB10 officialy the slowest car in the first week of testing.

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Bianchi just set a lap fast enough to make the Red Bull RB10 officialy the slowest car in the first week of testing.

...so Red Bull had the poorest testing ever?

[andy666]

Originally Posted by TheNo1F1Fan

...so Red Bull had the poorest testing ever?

They will be back..........remember it's Red Bull !

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by andy666

They will be back..........remember it's Red Bull !

could be the MP4-18 all over again: a car that never races after a disaster in testing

and that car was desingned by Newey as well.