[Rumours] 2016 Driver Silly Season & Beyond

[BSchneiderFan]

Or he's confident that they've nailed the new regs.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Or he's confident that they've nailed the new regs.

Hmmm, he would have to be very confident! It would be great to see Williams return to winning ways alongside Mclaren and make it a 5 team battle.

[CJFG]

As others have mentioned, I think Toro Rosso's second seat will be a straight fight between Kvyat and Gasly. Personally I've no idea who they'll plump for.

Kvyat looks a shadow of his former self at the mo, confidence is shot to pieces, but, he still has the (reported) backing of Franz Tost. On the other hand Gasly (the next Red Bull Junior in line really) is up there in the current GP2 standings, which reflects well on him, but being in a weaker field than recent years takes the gloss away a little. I doubt they would choose a non-affiliated Red Bull driver (speaking purely from Toro Rosso's recent past) but I could be surprised. In my eyes, Toro Rosso have to weigh up whether Kvyat can find the form of old or if Gasly can make the step up. Either way they'll be taking a punt.

On a different note, as an earlier poster noted, Giovinazzi is rapid but has the odd incident or two in him, iron that out and I think he'll be in Formula One in the next few years.

[djinvicta]

Red Bull dont muck about. Kvyat had his chance and has lost the plot, which is sad, but RB don't care. They want/need potential winners now.

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Here's how I read it:

McLaren: is Alonso and Button vs Vandoorne. And it'll be Vandoorne. He's the future of McLaren and they can't afford to sideline him for another year. He's a Ron man too, and Jenson isn't.

Williams: Massa will be gone, and I'm sure the team would very much like Bottas to stay for consistency. Jenson has a good chance of joining and Perez is very much in the mix. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Laurence Stroll pays for Lance to take a race seat. So much so, I'll plump for a leftfield Button and Stroll lineup.

If I were Jenson I'd have been round to Grove and bitten Ms. Williams' arm off!
He must know Ron wants him out and Vandoorne in. I wouldn't allow Dennis the pleasure of sacking me – I'd walk. He doesn't need lots of cash, God knows, so he could be sensible on that front and get a season or two with a Merc motor – even if it is a tad 'detuned'. And it would add a certain symmetry to his career...

[chunterer]

But Williams not only need a top liner, they need drivers with real fire in the belly.

Not sure Jense has that. Bottas does have that urge because hes still got much to prove.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by sparkione

If I were Jenson I'd have been round to Grove and bitten Ms. Williams' arm off!
He must know Ron wants him out and Vandoorne in. I wouldn't allow Dennis the pleasure of sacking me – I'd walk. He doesn't need lots of cash, God knows, so he could be sensible on that front and get a season or two with a Merc motor – even if it is a tad 'detuned'. And it would add a certain symmetry to his career...

Mr Button had a Benz engine.. when he won the WDC with Brawn..

Still hard to see the logic here, WilliamsF1 is not at the 'best of the rest' stage at the moment.

The usual questions racing drivers ask (in a variety of orders), is how much $$, how much stress, how competitive will I be, how much promoting do I have to do..

Even if the $ were right, would the rest of it fit the model?

[BSchneiderFan]

If we assume - and it is only an assumption - that the doors of Woking are closed to Jenson, Williams is his most competitive option. No room at Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari, so Williams is next up. A better bet than Renault or Force India.

[BSchneiderFan]

And in this week's least surprising news story, Bottas says he's keen to stay at Grove.

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

If we assume - and it is only an assumption - that the doors of Woking are closed to Jenson, Williams is his most competitive option. No room at Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari, so Williams is next up. A better bet than Renault or Force India.

Spot on. But he must be asking himself some tough, searching questions. He's almost certainly won his last F1 race, certainly WDC, and I'd hate to see him do a Graham Hill (bless him) and overstay his time. Maybe rallycross beckons – like his dad – or even fronting-up Top Gear. That'd give the Stig a fright...

[BSchneiderFan]

Well, he's 36, will be 37 going into next season. Clearly he's winding down but I think he's still got the pace to win races given the equipment. Who knows, perhaps Williams will nail the 2017 regulations and be able to nab a win from to time. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Remember, Alonso is only 18 months younger.

[BSchneiderFan]

Fascinating article on JB in this week's Autosport. Points out that he is the only person ever to outscore both Hamilton and Alonso as team mates over the balance of a season, and also mentions his formidable physical fitness. Really hope he gets a decent seat next year - if I was in charge at Ferrari he'd have replaced Kimi in a second.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Fascinating article on JB in this week's Autosport. Points out that he is the only person ever to outscore both Hamilton and Alonso as team mates over the balance of a season, and also mentions his formidable physical fitness. Really hope he gets a decent seat next year - if I was in charge at Ferrari he'd have replaced Kimi in a second.

I hardly think outscoring Alonso last year counts though does it, basically his car broke down fewer times in a shocking season of reliability.

[BSchneiderFan]

The scores on the doors are what count at the end of the season. JB has beaten Hamilton and Alonso - no-one else has *ever* done that. Just reinforces to me that JB deserves several more years in F1 yet.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The scores on the doors are what count at the end of the season. JB has beaten Hamilton and Alonso - no-one else has *ever* done that. Just reinforces to me that JB deserves several more years in F1 yet.

Oh don't get me wrong, he is clearly still a fine driver and i would love to see him get the Williams drive next year, just think the "scored more points than Alonso in 2015" argument is a bit of a tenuous one.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The scores on the doors are what count at the end of the season. JB has beaten Hamilton and Alonso - no-one else has *ever* done that. Just reinforces to me that JB deserves several more years in F1 yet.

Performance and feedback skills count first for Mclaren at the moment and results are only more important when it's truly on the line.

Having said that Button could be driving as well as he ever has (Alonso even said he really rates him) but all it might end up doing for him is attracting a lesser team to his services.

Sods law says in 2017 Mclaren-Honda will be sniffing for wins at least and Button doesn't get payback for his hardwork and patience!

[wolfhound]

The other issue for Button is McLaren have a habit of producing a duff chassis every few years and this years chassis appears to be a good one.

[BSchneiderFan]

I'd be surprised to see McLaren looking at wins next year. But I could be wrong.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I'd be surprised to see McLaren looking at wins next year. But I could be wrong.

I like both McLaren and Honda, but I would be shocked if they were able to challenge for wins next year. But like you, anything is possible.

Richard

[gert]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

he is the only person ever to outscore both Hamilton and Alonso as team mates over the balance of a season

I didn't look it up, but isn't he the *only* driver who has been a teammate of both Hamilton and Alonso?
Hence, a bit of a stupid statistical fact then, no?

Equally stupid: did you know Nico Rosberg is the *only* driver ever to outscore both Hamilton and Schumacher as teammates in numbers of victory over a season?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by gert

I didn't look it up, but isn't he the *only* driver who has been a teammate of both Hamilton and Alonso?

to be fair, both Hamilton and Alonso have also both been team mates to Alonso and Hamilton!

seriously though Button does have an excellent resume minus his first couple of years.

beat Villeneuve and Sato in the BAR days and more than had the measure of Barri for the Honda/Brawn years. and following LH's departure at Mclaren soundly thumped Mags and later Perez all be it they were rookies. but came back and took the fight straight to Alonso who most still regard as the most complete driver on the grid.

put it another way, is there another driver who has beaten 3 former world champ team mates over the course of a season during their career?

off the top of my head i cant think of any.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but came back and took the fight straight to Alonso who most still regard as the most complete driver on the grid.

Who has got the upper hand this year though?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Who has got the upper hand this year though?

Everyone can be beat. The point is that while Alonso may still yet beat him this year, Jenson is competitive with the best.

Another measure is to look at when he was beaten by his teammate over his 15+ years in F1. He has been up against a mixture of journeymen, rookies and world champions...

2001 Giancarlo Fisichella 8 vs 2 points
2008 Rubens Barrichello 11 vs 3 point
2010 Lewis Hamilton 240 vs 214 points
2012 Lewis Hamilton 190 vs 188 points
2016 Fernando Alonso 30 vs 17 points (incomplete season)

That is nothing to sneeze at.

Richard

[BSchneiderFan]

I think I'm also right in saying that Button is the only person ever, in any car racing category, to beat Hamilton over the balance of a season. And I rate Hamilton very highly.

For me, the fact is that JB is still super-fit and lightning quick. His weakness compared to the very, very best is that he can't wring the neck of a recalcitrant car. But give him a decent platform, and he's every bit as quick as the best.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

put it another way, is there another driver who has beaten 3 former world champ team mates over the course of a season during their career?

off the top of my head i cant think of any.

Prost. Beat three former champs in Lauda, Rosberg and Senna. He also beat future champs Mansell and Hill prior to their world titles.