[Driver] Brendon Hartley in F1

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Number4

New Zealand has half the population of London, they struggle to consume an oil tanker full of oil.
If a truck crashes into a hedge it is breaking news for a week. Hartley in F1 will be already up there with the moon landings and JFK's assassination.

If you hold him down I will do the business with the clippers.

the polulation of NewZaland is 4.7M.....now lets say that 20% of them buy a can of RedBull after being excited about Brendon joining Torro Rosso, thats 940,000 cans sold.......at $2 each, thats $1.88M......I admit I'm clutching at straws now!!!......

good luck to him at Mexico, looks like adrivers circuit, so he should be able to shine

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by knighty

the polulation of NewZaland is 4.7M.....now lets say that 20% of them buy a can of RedBull after being excited about Brendon joining Torro Rosso, thats 940,000 cans sold.......at $2 each, thats $1.88M......I admit I'm clutching at straws now!!!......

good luck to him at Mexico, looks like adrivers circuit, so he should be able to shine

And another track he's been to this year with Porsche. Small thing but that has to help in a new car.

[knighty]

Its curtains for Kvyat - GAME OVER

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/885890/...nish-f1-season

[S griffin]

I hate to say it, but he just didn't seem to do himself any favours since he was demoted. BTW someone pointed out everytime Kyvat is dropped/demoted, Verstappen wins! So looks like we've got the Mexican GP winner sorted

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by knighty

the polulation of NewZaland is 4.7M.....now lets say that 20% of them buy a can of RedBull after being excited about Brendon joining Torro Rosso, thats 940,000 cans sold.......at $2 each, thats $1.88M......I admit I'm clutching at straws now!!!......

Don't forget all the sheeps.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I hate to say it, but he just didn't seem to do himself any favours since he was demoted. BTW someone pointed out everytime Kyvat is dropped/demoted, Verstappen wins! So looks like we've got the Mexican GP winner sorted

Last win of his career...

[steve_r]

Kvyat I thought did OK when first promoted to the main Red Bull team, but things started to go wrong after those collisions with Vettel. Significantly outscored by Sainz since returning to Torro Rosso, and obviously not wanted, this cannot be a surprise to anyone.

He probably could join the mass of ex Torro Rosso drivers in Formula E.

As for Hartley, when compared with the recent trend of giving teenager drivers a seat, this seems like a step back towards the olden days - which is not necessarily a bad thing. He needs to grow his hair back though...

[Richard C]

I saw this noted in a news story somewhere, but given the regulations only allow four drivers for a season (there is room for force majeure to allow for more than four)... Toro Rosso have used their four. So they have to finish the season from the list of... Sainz, Kvyat, Gasly and Hartley. If Sainz and Kvyat are truly gone for the rest of the season then it is Gasly and Hartley for the remaining races.

Richard

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I saw this noted in a news story somewhere, but given the regulations only allow four drivers for a season (there is room for force majeure to allow for more than four)... Toro Rosso have used their four. So they have to finish the season from the list of... Sainz, Kvyat, Gasly and Hartley. If Sainz and Kvyat are truly gone for the rest of the season then it is Gasly and Hartley for the remaining races.

Richard

I assume this rule is to prevent a team from selling a seat race to race and it leading to unprepared or rich guys buying seats?

Seems a silly rule in a case like this though. If something happened and gasly or Hartley were not able to make a race, there would be no good come of seeing kvyat again, as we know what he can do and that he's not a solution. And moving sainz back ia bad for the sport as well, so it just hurts the overall quality. It also may keep another young up and coming talent from getting a shot.

But it likely won't matter as it would take quite a rare occurence for it to be an issue.

[Adam43]

Well people don't like the change, you're barely allowed to change your helmet nowadays.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I assume this rule is to prevent a team from selling a seat race to race and it leading to unprepared or rich guys buying seats?

Seems a silly rule in a case like this though. If something happened and gasly or Hartley were not able to make a race, there would be no good come of seeing kvyat again, as we know what he can do and that he's not a solution. And moving sainz back ia bad for the sport as well, so it just hurts the overall quality. It also may keep another young up and coming talent from getting a shot.

But it likely won't matter as it would take quite a rare occurence for it to be an issue.

And I think that would be covered by force majeure clause; Sainz is out and with another team, Kyvat fired so the remaining team of 2 could require a back up driver to be signed and allowed under that clause.

[loon]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I assume this rule is to prevent a team from selling a seat race to race and it leading to unprepared or rich guys buying seats?

Seems a silly rule in a case like this though. If something happened and gasly or Hartley were not able to make a race, there would be no good come of seeing kvyat again, as we know what he can do and that he's not a solution. And moving sainz back ia bad for the sport as well, so it just hurts the overall quality. It also may keep another young up and coming talent from getting a shot.

But it likely won't matter as it would take quite a rare occurence for it to be an issue.

I would love to see drivers come and go race by race, just like the fun days of the 70's

[courageous]

Just announced on radio le mans that Ganassi (the team that was all but certain to run Hartley in Indycar) has now signed another driver

Now the other driver is a buy ride, so could be as well as Hartley but the timing is interesting

[S griffin]

I didn't know about the four driver a season a rule, I wonder when it was introduced. I know in 1992 they had a rule of no more than two driver changes a season.

As for Hartley's long blonde barnet, if it was good enough for James Hunt, it's good enough for him

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by courageous

Now the other driver is a buy ride, so could be as well as Hartley but the timing is interesting

Don’t think so. Rookie of the Year, 3rd with a damaged car at the 500. Lights Champ. F3 Champ before that.

CGR had three on their list. Jones, Rosenqvist and Hartley.

Decision was easy in the end as Rosenqvist has FE contract which takes precedence and Hartley clearly chasing F1.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by courageous

Just announced on radio le mans that Ganassi (the team that was all but certain to run Hartley in Indycar) has now signed another driver

Now the other driver is a buy ride, so could be as well as Hartley but the timing is interesting

Originally Posted by peebee2

Don’t think so. Rookie of the Year, 3rd with a damaged car at the 500. Lights Champ. F3 Champ before that.

CGR had three on their list. Jones, Rosenqvist and Hartley.

Decision was easy in the end as Rosenqvist has FE contract which takes precedence and Hartley clearly chasing F1.

Exactly what peebee said, Ed Jones is a racer and definitely not a ride buy. He had Mazda cash last year as the Lights champ I believe but that's a single season deal after you get a ride in Indycar. CGR doesn't need a ride buy driver in the NTT car, they have full backing on that. As for adding a third car, it seems unlikely even for the 500.

Makes it sound like Hartley has been welcomed back in to the Red Bull family, possibly as the goofy cousin was the only family left to sit at the adult table for now. They don't have many F1 eligible drivers left in the lower ranks to pull from do they?

[Armco Bender]

I'm calling it Gasly and Hartley for Torro Rosso 2018.

[Armco Bender]

Hartley splits the 2 Williams in practice,looking good so far.

[10TENTHS]

Sorry if this was mentioned already, but Dixon did get a couple of tests with Williams back in the day (2004), but they ended up hiring Webber and Heidfeld for 2005.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

I'm calling it Gasly and Hartley for Torro Rosso 2018.

I don't think that is much of a stretch seeing as they bought Hartley out of his Ganassi contract and Kvyat has been released.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/145325-...otiations-long

I really hope it is true. Hartley is such a nice guy and has been fantastic in sportscars.

[S griffin]

Did Hartley actually sign a Ganassi contract? Forgive me if I missed something

[broadrun96]

I think it was widely rumored he WAS going to sign with Ganassi for '18 but nothing was ever announced. So I'd go with they (STR) managed to convince him to stay with them in F1 than sign with CGR.

I stand corrected from Will Buxton's Twitter feed: Franz Tost wouldn’t be drawn on the details of negotiations with Chip Ganassi to release Brendon Hartley. Merely confirmed they were “long.”

[Armco Bender]

Grid penalty might have stopped a good points finish...

[Razzzor]

So Hartley improved this weekend in the areas where he was slightly weaker last week. Mainly qualifying. If he'd got a lap together he would have split the Williams' in 12th. No comparison to Gasly though, who wasn't able to run.

But yeah of course the engine goes, giving Hartley a 25 place grid penalty at US GP, a 20 place grid penalty at Mexico and probably another 25 for the next round since his engine could only last 30 laps. Pathetic Renault, pathetic. Tough for Gasly/Hartley they come on board when the car can't last.

Brendon does still need to work on his starts because he was sluggish again and both McLarens jumped him, which meant the Toro Rossos were running dead last. Something happened to Gasly on that first lap and he dropped 8 seconds, so when a few others who also had problems (Massa, Sainz, Wehrlein I think), at least Massa ended up between Hartley and Gasly. Also Wehrlein, who I think Hartley passed on lap 1 but Gasly didn't. Perhaps there was a collision between Gasly and Wehrlein that was never shown.

From that point Hartley was running well, closing on others in front. He passed Grosjean at the same time as Alonso (video director conveniently cut away just before it happened, dumbass). Then followed Alonso for a few laps as they both caught up to Vandoorne and Ericsson (well Alonso a lot quicker than Hartley did). Vettel spread them about a bit though as he passed them all, and it left Hartley about 2 seconds behind Vandoorne (and slowly closing), who was in turn 2 seconds behind Alonso before Ericsson pitted. Then Hartley's engine went.

If it hadn't, when they pitted assuming Vandoorne had a slow stop still it would have put him ahead. But in the end that would only have been 12th, with Massa further up the road because we're assuming there wouldn't have been a VSC then. He may have caught Massa, but probably wouldn't have passed him, nor with Vandoorne as their pace was too similar.

Gasly's speed was pretty similar to Hartley too. He was 8 secs behind at the first lap, but got it down to 5 secs. However both were compromised in traffic, Hartley probably sitting in hot air a lot more than Gasly until Gasly caught Grosjean as well. He eventually got past. The gap still sitting about 6 secs between them at that point.

I don't know what happened to Gasly, he must have made some mistakes under VSC or just caught it at a really bad time, because his pit stop was fine but he ended up losing about 15 seconds somewhere and was behind Ericsson. But he maintained the gap to Vandoorne at 18 secs throughout the entire last stint so we can assume Hartley would have done the same. So ultimately, Gasly and Hartley pretty equal in performance and Hartley would have finished ahead of him mainly because he didn't make any mistakes. Pretty good for Brendon as Gasly is probably expected to have an edge at the moment while Brendon is still getting used to single seaters again. Again though, Brendon has to practise those starts.

One can only wonder what would have happened if Hartley did start 12th. Stroll (who would have been behind him) was up to 5th at the start. Ericsson and Magnussen ran in the points for half the race, who started 12th and 14th. If Hartley got a good start I think he could easily have matched Magnussens pace and ended up in the points. Magnussen ended up 8th, Stroll 6th.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

So Hartley improved this weekend in the areas where he was slightly weaker last week. Mainly qualifying. If he'd got a lap together he would have split the Williams' in 12th. No comparison to Gasly though, who wasn't able to run.

But yeah of course the engine goes, giving Hartley a 25 place grid penalty at US GP, a 20 place grid penalty at Mexico and probably another 25 for the next round since his engine could only last 30 laps. Pathetic Renault, pathetic. Tough for Gasly/Hartley they come on board when the car can't last.

Brendon does still need to work on his starts because he was sluggish again and both McLarens jumped him, which meant the Toro Rossos were running dead last. Something happened to Gasly on that first lap and he dropped 8 seconds, so when a few others who also had problems (Massa, Sainz, Wehrlein I think), at least Massa ended up between Hartley and Gasly. Also Wehrlein, who I think Hartley passed on lap 1 but Gasly didn't. Perhaps there was a collision between Gasly and Wehrlein that was never shown.

From that point Hartley was running well, closing on others in front. He passed Grosjean at the same time as Alonso (video director conveniently cut away just before it happened, dumbass). Then followed Alonso for a few laps as they both caught up to Vandoorne and Ericsson (well Alonso a lot quicker than Hartley did). Vettel spread them about a bit though as he passed them all, and it left Hartley about 2 seconds behind Vandoorne (and slowly closing), who was in turn 2 seconds behind Alonso before Ericsson pitted. Then Hartley's engine went.

If it hadn't, when they pitted assuming Vandoorne had a slow stop still it would have put him ahead. But in the end that would only have been 12th, with Massa further up the road because we're assuming there wouldn't have been a VSC then. He may have caught Massa, but probably wouldn't have passed him, nor with Vandoorne as their pace was too similar.

Gasly's speed was pretty similar to Hartley too. He was 8 secs behind at the first lap, but got it down to 5 secs. However both were compromised in traffic, Hartley probably sitting in hot air a lot more than Gasly until Gasly caught Grosjean as well. He eventually got past. The gap still sitting about 6 secs between them at that point.

I don't know what happened to Gasly, he must have made some mistakes under VSC or just caught it at a really bad time, because his pit stop was fine but he ended up losing about 15 seconds somewhere and was behind Ericsson. But he maintained the gap to Vandoorne at 18 secs throughout the entire last stint so we can assume Hartley would have done the same. So ultimately, Gasly and Hartley pretty equal in performance and Hartley would have finished ahead of him mainly because he didn't make any mistakes. Pretty good for Brendon as Gasly is probably expected to have an edge at the moment while Brendon is still getting used to single seaters again. Again though, Brendon has to practise those starts.

One can only wonder what would have happened if Hartley did start 12th. Stroll (who would have been behind him) was up to 5th at the start. Ericsson and Magnussen ran in the points for half the race, who started 12th and 14th. If Hartley got a good start I think he could easily have matched Magnussens pace and ended up in the points. Magnussen ended up 8th, Stroll 6th.

Mr Gasly had done like a dozen laps or so in that car prior to the race, so a wobbly performance would have been more that understandable.

Hopefully Mr Hartley can get a clean run and we can see what he can do.. next round isn't looking likely, perhaps the one after...

Nice to see he is still excited about actually being there, and happy to admit errors, when others don't seem to like to do that kind of thing...

Sad to think the Honda will be worse next year