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Old 17 Dec 2007, 21:50 (Ref:2090843)   #1
Chest2Tank
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Conceptual Stages of building a motorcycle track IRL

So I have a desire to build a 1.25 to 1.5 mile long track with 30+ turns for my own amusement. I have absolutely no idea how to design anything outside of photoshop and Illustrator, but I'm taking a crack at SketchUp which you can get for free. I know there are CAD proggies and such, but that's way more technical than I want to get at the moment. Anyone have an interest in playing around and giving me input on your designs?

Also, I'll take any input on this thing because I seriously plan on building this in real life starting in September.

Let's keep the facilities out this discussion, let's just talk about making a fun, yet safe track. Think of the dragon with run offs and kitty litter

Let's have some fun!

BTW, I'm not a troll. I'm on about 7 other forums, so checking all of them would be a huge time investment. Being that this forum is pertinent to the information I'm requesting, I'll check this thread regularly.
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Old 17 Dec 2007, 22:13 (Ref:2090856)   #2
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best advice ...Forget 30+ turns in 1.5 miles

Starting place...pencil and paper.
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 16:25 (Ref:2091370)   #3
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No, the idea is to keep it safe by keeping it slow with a lot of turns and few straights. This will be my private track, so I'll make it how I like it

Has anyone here actually built a track?
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 17:09 (Ref:2091397)   #4
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It would be very slow, 30 turns into 1.5 miles (2400 metres) would be an apex every 8 metres. I know of kart tracks that are almost that wide never mind between apexes.

But as you say make it as you like.
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2091523)   #5
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Dont Use sketchup! Penicil and paper. Sketchup can get frustrating when you cant put textures in the places you would like to. Then mabey try it in ms Paint. Also, mabey less corners in 1.5 miles?? SOmetimes corners after corner after corner gets boring, Try and not make it too micky mouse like most Tilke Rings... But good luck! Sounds like an interesting project, but for ideas, I suggest looking at some other peoples tracks and to go through lots of possibilities for layouts, and then decide on the best, remember, you want a track that you will enjoy, with variaties of different corners. Good Luck!
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 21:32 (Ref:2091557)   #6
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An apex every 80 metres SBF That assumes that each corner follows at regular intervals, which of course they won't.

An interesting brief that you've set yourself though Chest2Tank. Good luck, and welcome to ten-tenths

EDIT: And no, I don't believe anyone has actually gone and built a real track of their own, lol. I think this is a forum for armchair enthusiasts of track design generally speaking!
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 21:59 (Ref:2091578)   #7
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hey I'm an engineer not an mathematician.
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 22:48 (Ref:2091618)   #8
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LOL, engineers need maths more than anybody.
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Old 18 Dec 2007, 23:06 (Ref:2091635)   #9
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Hello C2T and welcome to the board!

A motorcycle track? Don't modern motorcycle tracks always have these large air-filled cushions in front of the walls at the end of the runoff?

I think you can't build the track IRL without the help of an architect, because they are the people who know what information a construction plan must include. I'm not intending to discriminate anyone, but it's somewhat risky to let builders improvise. The architect is their choreographer, and this is something with which us armchair enthusiasts cannot help you.

But regarding the design of the track's overall blot shape and corner shapes, we surely do have lots of ideas.

As opposed to my fellow track designers, I still draw mine on paper, well, mainly because I can draw with a pen but not with a mouse. Additionally, on paper you can see the scales better. Using chequered paper should help you and the architect later on.

Before you start drawing sketches, I'd look at the piece of land that you have available. Try to memorize its changes in altitude, or go there and draw your sketches right there. A track is a three-dimensional object, which is something that armchair enthusiasts including me sometimes tend to forget. I usually come up with the altitude changes after I've already completed the track design, but you can't do that in real life.

Then, there are different genres of tracks you can choose from. I guess you've already decided for a mixture of a kart track and a national/club circuit. With that in mind, I guess the biggest challenge might be to avoid it becoming a Mickey Mouse circuit.

Good luck with your project.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 17:37 (Ref:2092085)   #10
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Of course there will be arch's, engineers, consultants, etc. etc. What I'm trying to do here is nail down as many details as I can before I start paying everyone else.

Here's the hurdle now: I'm talking with people on two other boards and there seems to be interest in doing this, but no one knows about federal regulations. Actually, this won't be a private track - I will be making some cheese with it

Who knows what laws go into making a track aside from local zoning laws? We're talking the US, btw.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 17:40 (Ref:2092090)   #11
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No idea about US laws, but it would deffo be a "good luck" if it was in the UK. On the FIA and FIM's site you can look at their regulations for tracks, though.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 17:59 (Ref:2092115)   #12
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 18:05 (Ref:2092120)   #13
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errr, i need to be a member...
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 18:35 (Ref:2092136)   #14
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let's try that
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 20:01 (Ref:2092193)   #15
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Chest2Tank:

I studied for two years to be an architect, which would probably make me the most qualified of any of the contributors here to comment on the subject. Granted, I found out at the end of those two years that I enjoy observing architecture more than designing it, that I enjoy sleep more than slaving away in studio for three days straight without food or rest trying to configure a public bathroom, and that architecture destroys one's ambitions enough to send him fleeing away to an easy degree in communications than to not give up on his lifelong dream, but that's all water under the bridge.

Let me tell you, though, that if this is something that you really want you to pursue, you have to know one thing. In real-life design, the most important factor above all others is the site you have to work with. For most of what you see in this forum, the site is whatever we make it, so there are few constraints in the designs. In real-life, though, none of the advice that we can give is practical until there is land to put those ideas and principles to good use.

So my question to you would be, "Do you know where you are going to build this track?" If you have a location in mind, the first step in the process is to do some extensive surveying. Find out exactly what there is to work with: the borders of the property, the topography of the land, how much earthworks can be done considering the soil levels and water table. As long as you know the dimensions of the property, you can make some preliminary sketches on what you want the layout of the track to look like, but you must know all of the characteristics of the land before you can make any final decisions.
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 15:49 (Ref:2092749)   #16
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Originally Posted by Fish_Flake
Chest2Tank:

Let me tell you, though, that if this is something that you really want you to pursue, you have to know one thing. In real-life design, the most important factor above all others is the site you have to work with. For most of what you see in this forum, the site is whatever we make it, so there are few constraints in the designs. In real-life, though, none of the advice that we can give is practical until there is land to put those ideas and principles to good use.

So my question to you would be, "Do you know where you are going to build this track?" If you have a location in mind, the first step in the process is to do some extensive surveying. Find out exactly what there is to work with: the borders of the property, the topography of the land, how much earthworks can be done considering the soil levels and water table. As long as you know the dimensions of the property, you can make some preliminary sketches on what you want the layout of the track to look like, but you must know all of the characteristics of the land before you can make any final decisions.
We have an area, and we're looking for something to come up there. I agree that the lay of the land dictates how the track will be. No point designing a cool track if the land will make it too expensive to build!
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 19:04 (Ref:2092897)   #17
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I would probably take Fish's advice C2T.

Frankly, if you are deadly serious about doing this, I would seek better informed advice than the majority of the members here can offer you!

I'm sure once you have some more solid ideas though there would be many here willing to at least offer their opinion on the physical layout if nothing else.

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Old 20 Dec 2007, 19:36 (Ref:2092917)   #18
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Originally Posted by Chest2Tank


let's try that
If your taking this to be an initial concept, then the first thing I'd point out is that nearly all circuits have "pull off" areas that run alongside the track that open out into run-off (ie the grass ribbons that run around the circuit).
The width varies hugely, but to begin with I'd be looking at either twice the width of your track as the area between the barriers all the way around, or 1.5/2 car widths of grass either side of the track, before a barrier.

Not to mention access to all points for circuit marshals etc.
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 04:20 (Ref:2093129)   #19
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Here's a suggestion I threw together quickly. Track is approximately 2400m (1.5mi) long, 12m (40ft) wide, has 30 turns (14 right, 16 left) and runs counterclockwise. Red lines indicate a boundary of 20m (65ft) from the edge of the track. Plenty of room is left for runoff room, access roads, etc.
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 12:13 (Ref:2093291)   #20
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Thats a nice idea, having turns on both sides of the main straight insted of having all the turns to one side, I like that.
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 17:28 (Ref:2093437)   #21
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Depends on the site though doesn't it. I think having all the turns on one side of a straight and paddock area is much simpler logistically than something like mith's track.
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 18:49 (Ref:2093474)   #22
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I figured that most likely any plot of land suitable for a project like this would have access from one end/corner of the lot, rather than the whole length of one side. The paddock was implied to be alongside the S/F straight, with an access road leading to it from the corner of the picture. Of course, everything is completely dependant on the lot, and my idea was simply a layout that would satisfy the unusual requirements while having a sufficient margin of safety and minimizing the required area of land.

Here is another version, with a couple suggestions. The pit area is 133m (435ft) long as drawn, while the paddock is 133x60m (435x196ft). Added are a couple of light gray shortcut roads, which create a variety of different layouts (head, body, tail, head+body, tail+body, dragon). Also shown is a black straightaway that would allow a straight run up to 525m (1722ft).
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Old 22 Dec 2007, 13:08 (Ref:2093762)   #23
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Based on the request from TS it´s really nice! Would make a killer kartingtrack aswell
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2096298)   #24
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Chest2Tank,

is that 2249*792 on that sketch the dimensions of the site available?

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Old 30 Dec 2007, 01:01 (Ref:2096396)   #25
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I have something here.

First of all, of course it's only a game. Neither have do I have any skills or qualifications to plan a motorbike racing course, nor do I know anything about the actual site, its topology, for example.

I took all the data I could obtain and gave it my best shot - that's all it is, nothing less, nothing more.

What data did I have at hand?

about the track:

- the track should be no longer than 1.2 miles
- there should be at least 30 corners

about the site:

- based on the info written on the sketch you provided the area is 40 acres which converts to (let me use the metric system, I'm used to that) roughly 0.17 square kilometers.

- also, the track plan on the sketch is in a 6*17 rectangle. From the area size plus the ratio of the sides I calculated that it's roughly a 239*677 (meters) site, so that's what I used.


Here should come the track itself, but at the moment I don't seem to be able to attach any images for reasons unknown. I know, of course, how to upload, have done it a couple of times but whenever I'm trying to do it it says upload error: attachment in progress. I don't see why attaching being in progress should be an error, though... Until then, here's a link:

http://supremacy.hu/groundzero/pix/40_acre_course.jpg

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