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Old 16 Jan 2005, 20:59 (Ref:1202501)   #1
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Re-energizing Open Wheel Racing

Well fellow forum members, I have given this some thought and decided that starting a thread would not be a bad thing.

My only request here is that we stay away from the "Whodunit" aspect of things and focus on how what we all love so much can be re-energized and hopefully made relevant as a Top Series in International open wheel racing.

First, we have to start with some "givens":

1) Open Wheel racing is no longer the prominent type of racing in N America. The casual fan is almost unaware of it. Say "Indy" to the average person and like as not they will smile and say: "Brickyard 400!" Say: "Champcar World Series Brought to you by Bridgestone and Powered by Ford" or "Indy Racing League" and the answer will be a scowl and the word: "What?"

2) Teams from both Series (IRL/CC) have trouble arttracting sponsors, talent and the ongoing interest of the hardcore racing fan.

3) Drivers find that going to NASCAR is now a step UP in that the drives are paying drives and the focus is on finding a talented driver (see Jeff Gordon).

4) The sponsorship dollars find their way to NASCAR. For their faults, the France's have figured out how to keep manufacturer participation keen without having manufacturer domination - and thereby enormous costs. (This is not as true as in the past though, I admit).

5) The driver "country of origin debate" goes on. The true problem imho? Balance. There is none. Young travellers from Europe and Beyond with $$ use both Series' to further their careers. Even hardcore fans don't know who the heck these guys are.

6) Related to that issue is the whole "Ladder Series" farce. While there have been notable exceptions, in most cases the "Ladder Series'" exist simply to fill our race weekends so we are not bored waiting for the next CC/IRL practice/qualifying/race session. The Team Owners and the Series owners really could give a rat's booty about any of these guys - unless of course they have a gimmick (Danica - talented female) or $$$.

7) Gimmicks don't make up for good honest racing. "Push to Pass" is a joke as CC races primarily on street circuits where there is no ROOM to pass. If "Push to Pass" incorporated some sort of "Move the Jersey Barrier Out-of-the-Way Feature" then we have something worthwhile. See also the special sticky tire thing, mandatory pit windows and any full-course yellow for "debris." (A NASCAR favorite - 'cept no one has figured out how to use it right in Open Wheel.) The IRL has avoided this somewhat but they have a techno package that (no offense) creates a playing field SO level that they may as well be in equal shifter karts. A fluctuating crosswind can be more important to a race outcome than overall strategy.

8) Race Team Owners who own the Series. Can you say: "Conflict of Interest?" Sure you can.

There is, were I to burn the few remaining brain cells I have thinking about it, more. This will suffice to start.

Last edited by jjspierx; 17 Jan 2005 at 00:21. Reason: Thats "Powered by Ford", John.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 21:03 (Ref:1202506)   #2
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Some very good points there, John.

We on these fora are the hard core fans and it's sometimes easy to forget that in the USA, single-seater racing is barely registering with the general public.

I believe that situation can be turned around - but it will require a clear focus on moving forward.

You'll never improve your own lot in life substantially if all you're worried about is staying one step ahead of the neighbours as you both watch the family down the street get ever further ahead.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 21:16 (Ref:1202526)   #3
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How I think it can be fixed:

Please bear in mind that the opinions of the author are just that. I am not flaming, trolling, spewing, fomenting discord or trying to ruin everyone's day. Just for once, could we all sit down and discuss this without the blame, finger-pointing or other useless discussions over TG's vision this or Joe Heitzler's stupid idea that? Please?

1) We need a neutral party to step in and run things like a USAC or FIA type of organization (and please, I KNOW FIA is goofy - just stick with me for purposes of discussion!). Series' that are owned and operated by Team Owners or the Owner of the best-known venue in motorsports are doomed to failure as self-interest, self-absorption and greed will screw things up - boredom will end it.

2) We need then to establish a chassis/engine combo that is technically interesting. We need for the engines particularly to be based on a formula that encourages teams to work on, tweak and develop their own, ala NASCAR. Personally, I don't care if it is turbo, N/A, Supercharged or stock block. In fact, all four competing at once would be swell. Manufacturer involvement (i.e. $$$) needs to be discouraged. Bring back the Offenhauser if we have to.

3) There has to be a Crown Jewel - and there is one. It is called the Indianapolis 500. Now if you want to discuss everything you think is wrong with the 500 please start another thread. Open Wheel racing needs FOCUS - Big-Time. Open Wheel is on life-support now and we just don't have time to invent a new Big Deal Race.

4) The "Ladder Series" must mean something. The winner of the Barber Dodge championship should have a funded seat with a top Atlantic team as a reward. The winner of Atlantics should have an open wheel seat. How to do this? Each Team kicks in $$ annually. If you don't, you can't play. This could apply to the winner of USAC's Silver Crown for example (remember the need for local talent?).

5) Develop a "Core Fanbase." You remember us? The folks who went to Mid-Ohio and RA and Cleveland and Indy and Milwaukee and Phoenix because we WANTED to see the races and not because we think of racing as some sort of diversion at the local Street Fair? This Traveling Medicine Show bit where we go to wherever Jersey Barriers and Orange Cones appear has to stop. I am tired of the whole "profitable venue" talk. People go to Disney World because they want to - not because it comes to town once a year.

6) My last point for the moment: Make the Racing stand on it's OWN. People will pay to see a product that they like and they will travel great distances to do so!

The floor, for now, is yours...

Last edited by JohnSSC; 16 Jan 2005 at 21:18.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 23:18 (Ref:1202613)   #4
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I agree with almost everything there.

The biggest problem, IMO, is who can we get in their to do this?

Who can we get in there that is trusted by both sides, and that George and the CCWS owners are prepared to put their egos and stubbornness away and apply some old-fashioned give and take.

The only guy that I can think of is Mario Andretti - but it will take more than one man. Maybe someone from outside open-wheel racing? Maybe someone from outside North American racing? Maybe someone from outside racing, full stop?

As a dyed-in-the-wool Champ Car fan, never have I been more willing to see "the split" come to an end.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 23:23 (Ref:1202617)   #5
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It's a tough one. My ideal blueprint for open-wheel racing in North America would be the same as many people's:

1) A calendar of 16-20 events, with a mixture of superspeedways, short ovals, road courses and street courses, based around the month of May at the Brickyard (perhaps even having Indy as a non-championship race, in the manner of Le Mans); some overseas events but a North American core.

2) Competing engine and chassis manufacturers, with strong manufacturer involvement but some way of both encouraging smaller tuning operations and capping spending; engine manufacturers should probably be obliged to supply at least two teams if asked.

3) A strong ladder system with a clear and successful method of graduation from one level to the next.

4) A mixture of American and foreign drivers.

5) Racing which is an un-artificial as possible.

But, as you say, how to achieve all this?
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 00:40 (Ref:1202654)   #6
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I'm not saying that having Series owners being team owners is a good thing, but I don't think its that big of a deal. CART had its problems, but for many years it ran very well with team owners being an important part in the day to day running of the series. If we didn't have GF, KK, and PG running teams then OWRS would already be dead. Would you rather not have a series than have the series owners running teams?
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 00:45 (Ref:1202656)   #7
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What's has to happen is that both leagues will have to go broke (or close to it) before they'll listen to the kind of common sense I read above. It's just not going to happen before then, folks. There've been a few occasions over the past few years where things could have worked out well for the fans and for the sport as a whole. Didn't happen. Egos. I'll wait 'til the engine manufacturers leave Indy Car and the Champ Car owners get tired of nobody watching. Maybe then they'll all have to get together. Until then, I'm just going to try and enjoy what I see and maybe get to some races.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 02:18 (Ref:1202672)   #8
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I've been thinking a lot about this the last couple of days as both my wife and I are in graduate school, and she is taking a marketing class and one of the case studies is CART. So I gave her an overview of the history of CART/OW/IRL, and I came to the conclusion that if Toyota and Honda were out of the fray OW in general would be much better off. I'm not trying to say that certain things wouldn't have happened but what I am saying is that without Toyota and Honda we probably wouldn't be having many of the discussions we are today.

There is still lots of blame to be placed on the owners of both series' past and present, but take the influence of Honda and Toyota has brought forth monumental changes in OW racing today.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 02:48 (Ref:1202677)   #9
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I keep getting back to WHO. Everyone can pretty much agree on the sorts of things that need to happen ...... but who will both sides trust enough to do it all.

I think this is the major issue here, because I can't see Tony George getting together with Kalkhoven, Forsythe and Gentilozzi to sort it all out - although I would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting!

Last edited by mac; 17 Jan 2005 at 02:50.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 03:24 (Ref:1202689)   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightline
There is still lots of blame to be placed on the owners of both series' past and present, but take the influence of Honda and Toyota has brought forth monumental changes in OW racing today.
I'm not suprised by Toyota leaving the IRL, from the start people said: Toyota's plan is go in hard, win everything and leave a big mushroom cloud behind. (Also while rising the bar enough to squeeze out the little guys).

But you summed it up niceley
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 05:46 (Ref:1202722)   #11
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jjspierx to your point, basically what you are accepting is the existence of what is left of CART as somehow being preferable to no open wheel at all. There are alternatives in other forms of racing. Further, having the owners as Series owners is to my mind just as bad as having CART run by the Board - which was comprised of owners.

My thought is that we are trying to see in CC what we used to see in CART. Therefore if it still exists it must be good. Based on what CC has become (taking off the rose-colored glasses for a bit) the fact that it survived is probably bad. Why? Because it now limps along on life-support a shell of what it was. CART disappearing would have served as the wake-up call that was sorely needed. As long as manufacturer $$ could still be had (in the IRL) the Day of Reckoning could be put off.

Can't remember the product, but I remember the tag line: "Accept no Substitute." In accepting CC, we have accepted the substitute.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 05:55 (Ref:1202725)   #12
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Now Mac, who will run it? I don't know as I am not that smart, connected or talented. For sure no one will accept me even by popular acclaim! I will say this: Forget Mario. He never has and never will have the interest to "run" open wheel. He likes the role of "grand Old Man" and well he deserves it. He is a racer, not an administrator. If he had any inclination he would have owned a team by now. He won't - he has no desire to put dime one of his own into such an operation. One thing Mario has been adept at is getting the ride on someone else's dime (and I mean no offense here, just stating a fact). Further, he has no desire to become the next AJ Foyt: a terrific driver who has allowed his reputation to erode by being a really crummy owner. Taking on this job could be a reputation killer.

I think we need to use the sanctioning body model here - a USAC that has a strong organization - unless the fellow who started the NHRA (can't recall his name) becomes available or clones himself - now there is a terrific model of grassroots up to Top Level racing encompassed in one organization - talent finds its way to the top.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 06:20 (Ref:1202733)   #13
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I agree with everything in your post John. I was merely putting Mario's name up as the only person I know of that appears to be trusted by both sides.

I agree completely that we need a body involved .... but how, who? These are what we need to get right.

I'm not expecting the answers from you, but this is the thing that needs to be gotten right. Do we need someone like Mario to convince an external party to come in and head up this body?

Does this third party then head up a board with three guys from CCWS and three guys from IRL?

Kind of like locking them in a room until they sort out their differences - except with a mediator.

As I said earlier .... almost everyone knows what needs to be done. But who is prepared to grab the bull by the proverbials, kick down some doors, bang some heads together, and flush some egos down the toilet?
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 06:29 (Ref:1202736)   #14
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that would be one gigantic toilet mac.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 08:05 (Ref:1202764)   #15
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With this post I offer no solutions.

But there are more than simply "egos" to be dealt with on both sides.
Both have invested very large amounts of money into this, and I don't blame them for being reluctant to hand it all over to somebody else.

Both series offer things that the other wants.
The IRL has Indy and a few other notable ovals, they have a few teams and drivers that are rather high-profile.

ChampCar has some prime venues, and large attendance numbers. They too have a few teams and drivers that are rather high-profile. And they have a stable future when it comes to engines.

Both of them have network coverage.

One other thing that could eventually come into play here, is when the US finally decides to ban tobacco advertising. That day is not far off, and the already-scarce sponsor pool will become that much smaller. Needless to say, this would directly involve at least one very influential team.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 08:53 (Ref:1202791)   #16
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Aside from who should run the series, or sanctioning body or whatever, I think that CC needs to attract a whole new generation of fans. Now, myself being 24 years old I am being a bit biased, but those NASCAR fans who are in their late 30s and beyond aren't gonna change their fan support.

See, I am thinking like what the beer companies are doing with their advertising. If you notice they are not marketing to attract older drinkers because they are more than likely going to stick with their brand of beer. But the 21-to-34 age group is who they try to market to because they are more impressionable.

Having said that, CC does not need to focus their marketing on older race fans; they need to find younger fans in the 18-to-34 age group. Then if the quality is good CC will have fans for life.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 08:54 (Ref:1202793)   #17
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Basically market CC as the hip series and NASCAR as your daddy's series that is old.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 13:48 (Ref:1202974)   #18
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Amar, marketing will be something that happens down the road. The big question here is not simply going through the motions of marketing, but what is it that is being marketed?

You can have all the hip, slick, cool adverts you want but the product has to be worthwhile for any consumer to make the connection.

Herein though lies a problem: How many of us here came to like racing because of an advertisement??? I would venture very few. That is (to me) why building your core fanbase with real-live actual good racing is so important. Open Wheel needs to walk before it starts running with a marketing plan.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 13:54 (Ref:1202982)   #19
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mac, I think that you have a good idea as far as someone or some group with high integrity running the show. Macdaddy's point about how much some have invested so far is important as well.

As I see it, the whole thing is either going to have to go belly-up or come darn close to it before anyone will "do" anything such as look beyond their own balance sheet. The really big guys (Penske, Gerry, Kevin, Ganassi, Rahal, Michael Andretti) are all so diversified that they can do something else should the bottom drop out.

Once IRL/CC is staring at the abyss, then something will happen, something dramatic. At least that is what I am hoping. At that point a USAC could step in and hopefully get everyone to rally-round-the flag.

Of course, I have been wrong before....
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 18:29 (Ref:1203152)   #20
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Both series will not join forces before 1 goes broke. So that's not going to work.

Imo the only way for CC to grow is by investing in it.
1. CC pays enormous amounts of money on purses and teamsupport, which really doesn't help them grow. Stop with that and invest money in a good tv-deal and have all races on CBS. Do the same for Mexico and Canada. With these good tv-deals they can be certain that the mexican&canadian races&sponsors will stay in CC.

2. CC needs more profitable events. I guess with investing in the Nafta tv-deal (and better sponsordeals as a result) LB,Mex1,Mex2, Cnd1,Cnd2,Cnd3&SP should be profitable for CC. Denver could grow into that. That's 8 races. So they need a bunch of other.

The best autosport climate is in Europe. F1&DTM attracts massive crowds, and even F3 (zandvoort&Pau) and ELMS (monza, silverstone, spa) attract 50.000+ crowds. Add in the current weak dollar (which makes a CC-ride 25% cheaper) and imo CC should do 2 european runs of 3 races each.

Investing in this means paying big for good tv-deals (a total of +- 3 mil. viewers total per race for the 6 countries) in the countries you're going to race and making sure that at least 2 drivers from that countrie have a decent seat. This will cost you money (bigtime), but imo within 3 years these events could at least be breaking even (looking at the succes of other races in europe).

3. With good tv-deals in Nafta & europe and races in 3 continents the serie would indeed be a world championship & interesting for a) a big serie sponsor b) engine manufacturers

4) so now you got 14 events on average breaking even (apart from tv-costs), nafta tv-costs being offsett by the drop in costs for purses and teamsupport and a big main sponsor & a few manufacturers entrance fee's to offset your organisation costs and european tv-costs. Seems doable imo, but only with investments.

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Old 17 Jan 2005, 19:09 (Ref:1203170)   #21
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Champ/Indy racing in Europe is a fundamentally flawed idea - the series must remain primarily in the USA - backed up with "The Americas".

The European racing scene is successful, yes, but is already overcrowded.
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1203338)   #22
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think they need to focus on what CC does well. That should be providing really entertaining racing, period. Other businesses focus on their core competancies, this is CCs strength and it's been weaker lately. Do whatever it takes to make that happen. Push to pass has been one of the few moves in that direction in the last couple of years.

When the new CC forumla is introduced they need to be thinking, "what can we do to make this work?" The racing needs to be very close but somehow they need to have lots of passing. That means they need to be designed in a manner that produces similar lap times, promotes passing but costs a lot less. They need to think how can we introduce non-artificial variables that will allow for temporary advantages/disadvantages that will facilitate changes order, preferably through the design of the cars, tires, etc. How do we eliminate people running at 95% to be conservative to save fuel? Lower budget teams need to be able to compete. Money should be spent on important things like drivers, not on technical stuff.

I don't want to cause a fight and I always find myself harping on this point, but what makes OW different from Nascar and particularly Nascar restrictor plate racing if they run on an oval side by side for 250 laps? OW is about being nimble and thus more exicting and the drivers using that to do more exciting things. This is what OW does well and it should be carefully preserved, not sold out otherwise there is no place for it in the market because Nascar has that covered. Even if you like that kind of racing, surely you can see my point?

Other strengths are creating events. I agree that the traveling show thing should not be the emphasis of everything, but look at the model in Canada. It's created a lot of fans. People view it as special that a big series comes and races in Canada and that Canadian drivers are there. Take a look at the number of Canadian members on this forum. You cannot tell me that this stratagy does not have its place. CC practically invented this model, it's another core competancy. I'm not convinced that it must be a cookie cutter street race and that it can't be done with a road course.

One problem is that it's a big money sport and to try new ideas costs money, particularly the ones that could potentially revolutionize things. If we don't want street races or we want network TV coverage, these are things that may fall flat. Trying radical things with bags of money has been done before and that's part of why the series went bankrupt after 2003 instead of getting in another season or two before the money ran out.

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Old 18 Jan 2005, 00:46 (Ref:1203388)   #23
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I think another key is involving manufacturers, yet somehow reducing their input. Not sure how that could be done.

Can you guys imagine a series with the following:

Road Courses -
Road America
Laguna Seca
Watkins Glen
Mid-Ohio
Portland
Mexico City

Street Circuits -
Long Beach
Cleveland
Toronto
Surfers Paradise
Montreal

Superspeedways -
Indy
Michigan
Fontana

Ovals -
Milwaukee
Las Vegas
Texas
Chicagoland
Motegi
Rio

That schedule with Ganassi, Penske, AGR, Forsythe, N/H, Panther, RuSport, Rahal et al. all involved with their prospective drivers - how can anyone who has ever watched a single motor race not get excited by that!?

Last edited by mac; 18 Jan 2005 at 00:52.
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 00:56 (Ref:1203394)   #24
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JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!JohnSSC has a real shot at the podium!
Actually mac that is a nice mix of venues. Throw in that mix of owners and you will have some top-notch racing.

Snrub, your point is well-taken on the NASCAR thing. I think the bottom-line there is that typically there are 15 cars out of each field that is a viable race-winner with an additional 10-15 that could realistically place in the Top 5. Too many CC races have been decided by qualies.

Much as I harp on the "Traveling Show" aspect I WILL say that the "Canadian Tour" has been fairly established these past years - same cities at about the same time every year. It did help build the Canadian fanbase no doubt especially for those who do not live close to Montreal or Mosport Park. But this whole walking away from Laguna to do another parade in San Jose is not a positive imho.
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 01:29 (Ref:1203417)   #25
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The mention of the beer companies actually brings up something I was thinking about. Look at how Budwiser is attempting to brand itself to a new group of more upscale customers by focusing on taste, etc. and having classier marketing. It seems to be focused at "yuppies." I don't think there's necessarly anything wrong with branding CC as snobbier by subtilely working the angle that Nascar is for old rednecks and that CC is the more sophisticated, more intricate, exciting, etc. form of racing. (don't take offense, I'm trying to use words to describe the direction I'm talking about, not actually implying those are my opinions of Nascar) We've talked about the kids with their pimped up Hondas, etc., but they are simply the most visable example of how younger people are likely less suited to Nascar's marketing, but being young they tend to be more susceptable to automotive interests. JTCC (Japanese touring car) came over to the US because of those people.

Another obvious is that World Challange, Grand Am and ALMS have been growing in prominance over the last few years. (I'm saying that in a very generalized way, because I know some counter arguements can be made) I realize attendance often isn't stellar, but if you can have 3 of such series, plus Trans Am, surely there is an audience that's susceptable to what CC does.

Last edited by Snrub; 18 Jan 2005 at 01:33.
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