Who are the real RACERS ?

Wrex · 21 Mar 2001, 07:21 (Ref:73240)

I've read with interest on other threads people pointing out drivers who are real racers. They've all had at least flashes of brilliance, otherwise they would'nt / should'nt be in F1. Obviously opinions will differ, but who do you think in the current field are the REAL RACERS, as opposed to just quick drivers.

IMO, the REAL RACERS are TGF, Jacques & Alesi.

Almost real Racers are Coultard, Ralf, Montoya, Frenzie, Trulli & Verstappen.

The rest are just quick, unknown or boring.

What are your thoughts?

slipstream · 21 Mar 2001, 07:38 (Ref:73241)

I agree with your classifications, Wrex, except with the exception of Montoya. He is a definite racer.

Whilst he hasn't been on the track long enough to talk of whether he will get actual results he has that same 'almost out of control' driving style that Mansell was famous for. This may just mean that he ends up breaking a lot of cars (as did Nigel), but it will still be exciting watching him do it.

Wrex · 21 Mar 2001, 07:51 (Ref:73245)

Slipstream, He's not on the real racers list, because he has'nt RACED in F1 yet. However, he's on the almost recer list because I did watch him CART, and he was brilliant. Hope he repeats that in F1

Nuvolari · 21 Mar 2001, 08:34 (Ref:73249)

If you watched him in CART, Wrex, there is nothing else you could call him but a real racer.

There's no mistaking Juan Pablo. He's the genuine
article -- whether he's in the Williams or pushing a grocery carriage.

enemy-ace · 21 Mar 2001, 12:05 (Ref:73265)

I know Mika has been dis-credited on this forum for sometimes not showing up, but his comeback from near-death shows a Racer's heart plus that pass at Spa using Zonta as a pick must at least earn him an honourable mention!

As for Frentzen; off the top of my head, i can't recall ever seeing him pass anybody in a real pressure situation (where i think the real Racers earn their keep). His wins with Jordan i would consider more team wins, heavy fuel loads, strategy & luck! I will give him credit for putting up a good fight agsinst Ralf in malaysia however, that was fun to watch. But earlier in the race (in damp conditions)
he did nothing against a number of challenges. I believe he had a problem with the car, either that or his pants were full and he was too heavy.

kuchi · 21 Mar 2001, 13:10 (Ref:73284)

I agree with some of you, Montoya is a real racer. Others which I think can be on this list are Frentzen and Ralf. German drivers are good, I don't know why but most of them get good results in F1. As for TGF, well I must admit he is a real racer, but my hate against him is bigger than my admiration.

Jay · 21 Mar 2001, 17:48 (Ref:73324)

Of the current crop: Jacques Villeneuve, (Michael not Ralf) Schumacher and Juan Montoya.

My justification for the above is that these 3 driver drive at 110% of their ability and their car ALL of the time. They do not back off for one reason or another, and always attempt to pass and defend their position as if it was for the World Championship.

EERO · 21 Mar 2001, 18:49 (Ref:73340)

I agree with enemy-ace about Frentzen. Although I consider myself a fan of HHF, he is a "Driver", not a "Racer".

The Racers are Alesi, MSchumacher, both JV's, and most definately Montoya. Ralf is as well I think, but I'm probably alone here.

senna12 · 21 Mar 2001, 19:30 (Ref:73355)

I would agree with EERO, except the jury may still be out on Ralf as a racer. Maybe a push from Juan Pablo is just what the doctor ordered for TGFv.2. I'll bet Frank Williams is ecstatic about JPM being on the pace straight away.

**Bononi** · 21 Mar 2001, 19:52 (Ref:73361)

TGF,
JV,
Alesi,

Montoya,

Ukio,
Badoer.

(M Fan where are you ? Heeeellllpppp !!!)

P.S.: No seconds opinion allowed.

Airhead · 21 Mar 2001, 20:05 (Ref:73365)

From the pen of EEROS,

"The Racers are Alesi, MSchumacher, both JV's, and most definately Montoya. Ralf is as well I think, but I'm probably alone here."

Yep, all alone until Ralf's Girl shows up.

I agree with your other choices and would add DC on his day, say the French last year.

Jay · 21 Mar 2001, 20:54 (Ref:73385)

Oh yes, I forgot to mention Alesi and Verstappen. They should be included too.

I did not include Ralf Schumacher because, although he is an excellent driver, from watching him on TV and on the track, he does not seem to always give 110%, and is generally more laid back when it comes to trying to pass another car, or hold a position. He is still a great driver though.

Speed Demon · 21 Mar 2001, 21:07 (Ref:73390)

Ah good, glad someone is sticking up for Jos the Boss, Jay. He's looked pretty good at Arrows recently and doesn't take any prisoners. I think even Schumacher was impressed at how difficult it was to overtake him in Malaysia.

Liz · 21 Mar 2001, 21:12 (Ref:73392)

Alesi, always, no matter what kind of car he has or what the day is like. Ditto Montoya. These are guys who come to race and hate to lose.

Mika, if the car, the weather and the traffic is to his liking; he seems to get flustered if they are not.

Jacques in 1995-1997. Not now, except in flashes.

TGF, I'd have to see him in the kind of rides Alesi has had, to see how he'd measure up. Anyone can look outstanding if he's got a well-funded team built around him.

The rest, most of the time, except for the kiddies who are as yet unproven, are simply "arrive and drive."

enemy-ace · 21 Mar 2001, 21:35 (Ref:73400)

Although i to consider Alesi a TRUE racer, it is a sad fact that in this day and age in F1 his talents are not all that helpful. Alesi has a tendency to drive around a cars defects which doesn't help in the overall development of the car.
M.Schumacher is the (as much as it chagrins me to say) modern-day prototypical F1 RACER! He is very good at car development and then drives the pants off of it.
Having said that Villeneuve is the only other driver in that mould and he's still a work in progress!

Jeanburrasca81 · 21 Mar 2001, 22:05 (Ref:73409)

I'm so glad you all mentioned Alesi...well...although it's not a surprice. He truely is a real Racer. Like TGF and in my eyes noone else at the moment. I would never call Mika a Racer...a quick driver for sure...so are Ralf and HHF. I'd include also Jos and Olivier, not to forget Jacques and Juan Pablo, Rubens and David, maybe Fernando...the rest...including Eddie, ain't more than good drivers. Maybe i forgot a name..in case i will tell you later...lol.

racer10 · 21 Mar 2001, 22:09 (Ref:73410)

M SCHUMACHER
MONTOYA
JENSE
BARRICHELO
ZANARDI WHEN HE WAS THERE

EVEN SUGGESTING RALF PROVOKES A CHUCKLE

JV'S A BIT OVERATED ON THIS ONE

steve nielsen · 21 Mar 2001, 22:40 (Ref:73422)

Ah good, glad someone is sticking up for Jos the Boss, Jay. He's looked pretty good at Arrows recently and doesn't take any prisoners. I think even Schumacher was impressed at how difficult it was to overtake him in Malaysia.
___________________________________-

You're absolutely right there Speed Demon, in fact: Michael said it during the post race press conference.....

The real racers are : Michael schumacher,Rubens Barichelo,Ralf Schumacher, Heinz Harald Frentzen, Jos Verstappen, Jean Alesi(but I haven't seen much lately),JPM and Giancarlo Fisichella.

Mika and David aren't up there because they can barely stay ahead of Jos in the rain, in a Mclaren, I think Ron Dennis should give Jos a chance in his 2002 line up.

TeddyG · 21 Mar 2001, 23:46 (Ref:73444)

IMO:

1.) Jacques, Jacques and more Jacques
2.) TGF (hate it but it's true)
3.) The other JV (awesome in Malaysia)
4.) Alesi

Almost there:

1.) Ralf
2.) Frentzen
3.) Mika (more moves like the one in Spa please!)

No Montoya is NOT on my list cause he has done nothing in F1 so far and he has to earn some respect in F1 before he can be a REAL racer in my book!

mk1 · 22 Mar 2001, 15:49 (Ref:73599)

with out a doubt.

Run Free · 23 Mar 2001, 11:54 (Ref:73867)

IMO there are just few REAL RACERS in f1: Jacques Villeneuve, Jean Alesi, and....full stop :-(

Judging on what we've seen in Cart, JPM should be another one.

IMO the rest of the grid is made of half-racers (like HHF for example)and too many drivers :-(

Dino IV · 23 Mar 2001, 14:38 (Ref:73907)

Real racers in F1?

Today???

Easy ... three names: Montoya, Raikkonen and Alonso.

The rest is simply too long in F1 to have any racing blood left in this GP2-like sissy environment. Even Alesi didn't actually shine in his rally outings did he?

No doubt they will fall through in any other series with real gears, revs and grip, where you have to fight your corners and opponents in order to be quick and up front as well.

Makes you think whether Tommi Makkinen is actually the best driver in the world. He probably is. No overtaking in rallies? True. The road surface and non-knowledge of the next corner are the biggest opponent a real racer can face. The best at overtaking? Yvan Muller probably. The d'Artagnan of racing. Better leave F1 drivers where they are now, in their ego-protecting comp-conserved soap-series. They'd make a fool of themselves trying to take on any of these real racers.

Jeanburrasca81 · 23 Mar 2001, 14:49 (Ref:73910)

Erm Dino?...Am I right you don't thing at least TGF is a true racer??? If you think Alesi is no more a real racer and that he has no blood left thats already untrue...for if you see him giving his heart and soul to make this Prost car as quick as possible you will only be able top call him a racer. TGF...well..if you are able to watch him without thinking only for one time..WOW...WHAT A GENIOUS!!!...then I don't know what your criterias are...

Dino IV · 23 Mar 2001, 17:08 (Ref:73929)

TGF? C'mon, you must be kidding. The guy couldn't race anything that brilliant before he got to F1. Wow. Alice in Wonderland! Semi-automatic gearchanges, electronic clutch control, electronic throttle control.

Get him out of his GP2-toy and put him in a real car and he'll destroy your whole supply of clutches, blow-up all your engines and break down every gear- and difftooth as well. In that respect he's a total nightmare. I remember Ken Tyrell getting really angry at Stefan Bellof, who, while short-shifting to keep up with the Turbo-cars, blew one of the few Cosworth's Ken had bought for 1984. Ken would have gotten a thousand heart-attacks when TGF would have driven for him that's for sure.

There are only two criteria for real racers and those are real cars and real competition. Playmobiles in Wonderland don't give you any credit in that respect.

KA · 23 Mar 2001, 17:38 (Ref:73938)

Glad to see a mention there for the late Stefan Bellof, for whom the word racer is probably inadequate- what you said about him blowing up DFV's at Tyrrell is exactly the point- Stefan was pushing the Tyrrell right to it's limit & beyond trying to fight against the superior turbo cars- to me that defines a racer. If he'd lived, he he would have been definite world champion material

Other real racers currently- although I hate to admit it, TGF has to be in there, and Villeneuve- sometimes it's like watching his father, who to many was the ultimate racer.

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