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Old 12 Nov 2008, 22:16 (Ref:2333947)   #1
westfieldbend
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
race harnesses

To have a racing harness do you need a race seat?
My car is a mini, which i would like to do sprints in, however i dont particully want to rip out half of the interior - still have a back seat that is useble!
I know harnesses arent mandatory for sprints but i hear they help to stop you getting thrown around so much!
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Old 12 Nov 2008, 22:36 (Ref:2333959)   #2
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To fit a proper race harness the shoulder belts (if fitted correctly) should be fitted where the rear seat backrest is. I suppose you could fit it on the rear parcel shelf if its strong enough, don't forget they are a bit uncomfortable for normal road use as not being inertia type you cant just reach things easily, and are not so quick to do up.
Edit I suppose you could still leave the normal belt in there.

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Old 13 Nov 2008, 18:46 (Ref:2334457)   #3
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the plan was to leave the normal one in so i can take the harness out when not used for competition, will have to see if the parcel shelf is strong enough
thanks
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Old 13 Nov 2008, 19:45 (Ref:2334485)   #4
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Many years ago, I had a Ginetta G15 which I used on the road but because I did a couple of sprints in it, I'd fitted race seats and 4 point belts. I was able to live with it then but now I'd probably feel it all a bit too fiddly and uncivilised!
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 13:31 (Ref:2335787)   #5
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Suze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I've got four point harnesses [TRS] in my car - they're held in place by eye bolts where the original rear seatbelt mountings were. The "rear" bits of the belt stretching back don't cause any issues - apart from when they get in the way slightly when I am being a girl and want to put a selection of coats / handbags / shopping on the back seats
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Old 17 Nov 2008, 06:02 (Ref:2336195)   #6
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Don't forget that seats recline and these belts will put a strain on that mechanism. Frankly I wouldn't recommend it for that reason.
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Old 17 Nov 2008, 07:51 (Ref:2336216)   #7
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Suze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Have never thought re your point above but is it really that much extra force / pressure once someone is sat in them and strapped in, compared to "normal" belts? TBH I know many people who have done the same and never heard of anybody having that issue though see what you are saying.
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Old 17 Nov 2008, 08:53 (Ref:2336247)   #8
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I guess it may depend on how hard you pull the belts down. I have mine running over a rollcage bar which puts less downward pressure on my race seat. However I'd be wary of using them with a normal road car seat.
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Old 17 Nov 2008, 18:58 (Ref:2336533)   #9
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
thanks, i'll bear that in mind, i guess people will have to go into back through one side only!
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Old 17 Nov 2008, 22:08 (Ref:2336649)   #10
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Just got home and had a quick look at that car - when strapped in there was tension on the belt, but only as you'd expect. I wouldn't want to put the belts straight down through the floor but it's a reasonably gentle angle where they are held in [as it's the rear seatbelt mounting]. The car this is applicable to is only used for competing [and occasionally as a runaround] so people sitting in the back isn't an issue, but I see your point and shall look into it further, when I have more time and there's light!
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Old 18 Nov 2008, 01:50 (Ref:2336745)   #11
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I can't remember the angle but its pretty horizontal as required by the Blue Book and the FIA which is why I suggest it puts a strain on the seat back. Remember these seats are designed for comfort they take most of the strain in the lower back area but if you put a harness on you move the stress to the shoulder area thereby increasing the pull on the seatback top.
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Old 23 Nov 2008, 15:29 (Ref:2340201)   #12
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
having done a little research i have found these 'sports reclining seats' that may be of use, anyone have any experience with these?
Saying that i gather they are usualy found on peugeot 106's with big bore exhausts!
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Old 24 Nov 2008, 03:36 (Ref:2340512)   #13
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I'm not pimping my website but we can tell you all sorts of stuff, have a look here and see why we have the safety gear, then decide if yiou want to do it properly or just be one of the lads. As I said I'd never recommend using a harness with reclining seats.

http://www.mallettracing.co.uk/safety.htm
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Old 24 Nov 2008, 18:19 (Ref:2340929)   #14
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
yes deciding how far to go is quite hard with a sprint car,
I just want a seat belt to hold me in better which you cant really do without a racing seat which isnt really safe without a rollcage
Thanks for advice, your website was very useful
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Old 25 Nov 2008, 06:22 (Ref:2341208)   #15
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FWIW, I work in an industry where some of the major companies have considered installing (and in some cases actually have installed) rollcages into road/offroad cars, such as Nissan Patrols etc. But the rest of the seating and belt requirements remained unchanged.

One of those companies has been sued by the family of a person who was seriously injured when the car he was driving rolled and his head came into contact with the roll cage (even though it was padded).
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Old 25 Nov 2008, 21:06 (Ref:2341681)   #16
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
exactly,
But was that £25 a section fia padding or pipe insulation?
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Old 26 Nov 2008, 04:25 (Ref:2341898)   #17
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Frankly it doesn't matter. If your helmet suffers contact with the cage (and that FIA padding is pretty solid), it'll get damaged anyway. Your head doesn't stand a chance. It's one of the reasons why I'd never do a championship where you score points for drving the car to the circuit, a la Slick 50.

BTW. The victim mentioned above was wearing a seat belt (normal crossover type).

As it happens if you want a seat I might have one for sale (mine ran out of date for FIA races last summer). Better you get reasonable gear rather than try to compromise. That of course applies to anyone.
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Old 26 Nov 2008, 17:23 (Ref:2342283)   #18
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
wear your helmet on the road then...
I suppose a rear cage would be a sensible option althougth that would meen no back seat (or at least unusable ones!)
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Old 26 Nov 2008, 17:43 (Ref:2342291)   #19
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No you can take whatever risk you want, I'm not saying you should follow my advice, it's just that a competition car is just that. I realise some people can't have two cars too, so you need to compromise. A rear cage with removable cross brace may be a solution and a race seat for the driver with a harness will possibly do the trick.
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Old 26 Nov 2008, 18:20 (Ref:2342317)   #20
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That was my plan, but what about the risk of rear passangers hitting the back stays of the cage?

Its worth bearing in mind that some people turn up at sprints with just a standard road car.
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Old 27 Nov 2008, 03:33 (Ref:2342560)   #21
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Originally Posted by westfieldbend
That was my plan, but what about the risk of rear passangers hitting the back stays of the cage?
There is always that.

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Originally Posted by westfieldbend
Its worth bearing in mind that some people turn up at sprints with just a standard road car.
Again very true, it just depends how seriously you want to take things. Going back to a point I made previously, I wouldn't compete in a car that isn't prepared for competition, so from my perspective this kind of thing wouldn't attract me. Realising that we need to encourage people into the sport I can see the need for these kind of "arrive and drive" events. So people must make their own decisions whether this is for them or whether it is better to wait a bit longer and build a separate race car.

Saw the PM will reply.
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Old 27 Nov 2008, 21:58 (Ref:2342976)   #22
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Suze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuze should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Going back to a point I made previously, I wouldn't compete in a car that isn't prepared for competition
I sometimes use a standard car, I give it a wash and sometimes put in super unleaded, does that count?
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Old 28 Nov 2008, 02:19 (Ref:2343079)   #23
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Old 28 Nov 2008, 12:22 (Ref:2343235)   #24
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westfieldbend should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

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I sometimes use a standard car, I give it a wash and sometimes put in super unleaded, does that count?
I'll follow your advice then
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Old 28 Nov 2008, 12:41 (Ref:2343242)   #25
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You might want to up the tyre pressures too.
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