Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides MotorsportAds  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > 24 Heures du Mans


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3745299)   #2506
JHamilton
Subscriber
Veteran
 
JHamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United States
Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,254
JHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
I understand that, but considering the hole is unlikely to have a performance advantage, I think it is a real shame.
When you come up with a solution mid race like that it gives you a real buzz and shows a little intelligence. Shame to get smacked due to a technicality.

Would it have been OK they'd stuck some tape over it?
Also, they came up with a fix to a part that was dictated to them.

It's against the rules to start the car without the bodywork and put the bodywork back on, then leave the pit. The car has to be shut off, bodywork added, and then restarted, hence the hole.

Stupid ruling from the dumbest, most short-sighted sanctioning body in all of motorsport.
JHamilton is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:35 (Ref:3745301)   #2507
Ospi
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:37 (Ref:3745303)   #2508
JHamilton
Subscriber
Veteran
 
JHamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United States
Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,254
JHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ospi View Post
There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?
So next time there is a starter issue, just withdraw from the race, right?
JHamilton is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:43 (Ref:3745308)   #2509
Ospi
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHamilton View Post
So next time there is a starter issue, just withdraw from the race, right?
Change the starter.

Last edited by Ospi; 19 Jun 2017 at 18:48.
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:44 (Ref:3745309)   #2510
airbusA346
Veteran
 
airbusA346's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
England
Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 4,251
airbusA346 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridairbusA346 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Click image for larger version

Name:	19399046_10154541920897190_1492905475497454703_n.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	81.9 KB
ID:	49901
airbusA346 is offline  
__________________
JWA : Manthey Racing : Proton Competition
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:48 (Ref:3745310)   #2511
JHamilton
Subscriber
Veteran
 
JHamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United States
Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,254
JHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJHamilton will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ospi View Post
Nothing stopping them from removing the engine cover each stop. No rules broken.
Yes, yes there are rules preventing that which I watched them struggle with and listed above. They had to do this "procedure" twice during a stop as the starter froze again.


Evidently, there's no room in racing for racing anymore.
JHamilton is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:48 (Ref:3745311)   #2512
Articus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,160
Articus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ospi View Post
There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?


Application of the the rule is stupid considering the circumstances. Rebellion was brilliant for he call and were rewarded with 3rd place only to have it taken away.
Articus is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:49 (Ref:3745312)   #2513
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 4,270
Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!
The rule is intended to stop being making their own bodywork for a performance advantage, not trying to stop people solve reliability issues.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:51 (Ref:3745314)   #2514
Ospi
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry. Regulations are very clear and in black and white for all to see before the event.

They weren't awarded 3rd for their "brilliance", they did however take podium celebrations of a team in 4th (now 3rd) who broke no rules and didn't get to celebrate their deserved podium which is a shame.

Their option was to change the starter. They may not have finished on the podium but it's a lot better than a dsq.

You can't make exceptions because it's the spirit of the sport within regs, tjey fall down if you begin doing that. For the sport to work it needs to be to the letter otherwise loopholes appear, teams try to get clever and it becomes a mess.

Last edited by Ospi; 19 Jun 2017 at 18:58.
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 18:59 (Ref:3745315)   #2515
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 4,270
Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ospi View Post
Sorry. Regulations are very clear and in black and white for all to see before the event.

They weren't awarded 3rd for their "brilliance", they did however take podium celebrations of a team in 4th (now 3rd) who broke no rules and didn't get to celebrate their deserved podium which is a shame.

Their option was to change the starter. They may not have finished on the podium but it's a lot better than a dsq.
That's a bit over dramatic isn't it? Makes it sound like they all got together to form an evil plot to overthrow the white Knights of the Jackie Chan DC Racing team and stop them from having a celebration.

Or maybe it's a racing team that overlooked a rule and got punished. We see it continually in a lot of series. Happens in Blancpain to professional teams every week. Given the intention of the rule, it's easy to see how this mistake was made. Its the same as Toyota last year stopping after the finish line and doing a slow lap and getting nothing. If they'd stopped before the line they'd have been fine. Hard to remember every single rule during a race, especially when they're for a different intention.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 19:04 (Ref:3745316)   #2516
Ospi
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
That's a bit over dramatic isn't it? Makes it sound like they all got together to form an evil plot to overthrow the white Knights of the Jackie Chan DC Racing team and stop them from having a celebration.

Or maybe it's a racing team that overlooked a rule and got punished. We see it continually in a lot of series. Happens in Blancpain to professional teams every week. Given the intention of the rule, it's easy to see how this mistake was made. Its the same as Toyota last year stopping after the finish line and doing a slow lap and getting nothing. If they'd stopped before the line they'd have been fine. Hard to remember every single rule during a race, especially when they're for a different intention.
It's not easy, no, but racing at the top rarely is. It sucks for them but the decision is the correct one.
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 19:06 (Ref:3745318)   #2517
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 4,270
Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!Akrapovic is going for a new world record!
Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 19:11 (Ref:3745322)   #2518
Rf1 Fan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 566
Rf1 Fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.

According to Racer.com they tried to cover up the hole in Parc Fermé.

To my book i have no sympathy for them after reading that.

They broke rules and they tried to go under the radar.
Rf1 Fan is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 19:13 (Ref:3745323)   #2519
Ospi
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.
There's no subjectivity with how it's written. Besides, it did give them a performance advantage by allowing them quicker pit stops.
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jun 2017, 19:18 (Ref:3745326)   #2520
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 3,345
broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ospi View Post
It's not easy, no, but racing at the top rarely is. It sucks for them but the decision is the correct one.
That's a final straw for me if I was Rebellion, if a French team had done it they wouldn't have batted an eye. They have ignored all kinds of in race modifications in the past and did not like the fact that Rebellion showed everyone how asinine the rules over the bodywork were. If that's a penalty worthy of DQ, I'd leave for IMSA before the next race and tell the ACO to pound sand. They let cars run without cheese wedges, lights, leader lights (when they were required) and without a MIRROR, but no a hole in the bodywork is a no-no. That's spitting in the face of a team that has invested millions in to the sport building cars and running when no one else wanted to play. And if Oreca doesn't fix that moronic take the wing off to take off the engine cover, some one else will and demonstrate repairability and responsive design to on track needs. And yes, they could with the one joker allowed which as I read did not need unanimous vote, the Ligier request was to not use their joker but instead get a change to allowed bodywork.
broadrun96 is offline  
__________________
Retired, life is too short to not enjoy it and here we don't enjoy life.
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[LM24] The Official 2017 Le Mans Weather Thread (With Occasional Food References...!) Bentley03 24 Heures du Mans 78 25 Jun 2017 14:04
[LM24 Race] The Le Mans 2017 world famous traditional Ten-Tenths Meeting Thread PascaLM 24 Heures du Mans 130 23 Jun 2017 18:20
[LM24 Race] The 2017 Annual Le Mans Prediction Thread (Winner Now Announced) PascaLM 24 Heures du Mans 35 22 Jun 2017 14:09
[LM24 Race] 2013 24 Hours of Le Mans Race Thread gregtummer 24 Heures du Mans 2055 14 Nov 2013 12:33
[LM24 Race] 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans Race Thread gregtummer 24 Heures du Mans 1740 5 Jul 2012 16:40


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.