Driver Insurance

[TedN]

Interesting Insight

Ted

[macdaddy]

"Interesting" is the right word to use, Ted. I've read about the owners taking out car insurance, but I've always wondered about life/disability insurance for the drivers.

[Tony Clifton]

Interesting about the Greg Moore "nonidentification" comments. Moore was in his early 20's, probably had little in assests that needed protection. I believe that he did not own a home, he lived with his dad. Was not married and had no children.
His funeral expenses were easily covered by his annual income.

Except to a insurance salesman, what did Moore need life insurance for? Disability and accident yes, but life insurance, probably not.

At Schumachers salary level does he even need life or disability insurance? He could very easily self insure, save the premium and invest what it would cost for insurance in a separate investment that would act as a disability fund.

[Snrub]

I really don't get that stuff. I take offense to the comment about Moore where he said "It was stupid. Absolutely dumb." Ironic that his own comments describe themselves best. Moore had signed for $4M/year with Penske, but I'm sure his parents couldn't care a less about an insurance 'jackpot' as a result of their son's death. I really hope they don't read that article and its offensive comments.

I agree with you Tony, how much money does MS need? If he was disabled I think his previous $60M anual salaries just *might* help cover any costs he would encure.

TedN: Don't take my critisms in anyway towards you, I'm glad you posted it and the other recent articles.

[Mouser]

It was uncalled for and callous of the insurance guy
to speak of a deceased driver in such a disrespectful
manner. It is clear to me that the insurance agent
only cares about the comissions he greedily sucks
up like a vacuum cleaner. Greg Moore,or any other
racer doesn't deserve that ****!

[mountainstar]

I'd never heard of the agent quoted in the article. I'm mostly familiar with T.L. Clowes who has a good track record going back 40 years.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Snrub
I really don't get that stuff. I take offense to the comment about Moore where he said "It was stupid. Absolutely dumb." Ironic that his own comments describe themselves best. Moore had signed for $4M/year with Penske, but I'm sure his parents couldn't care a less about an insurance 'jackpot' as a result of their son's death. I really hope they don't read that article and its offensive comments.

Snrub, no one, and I mean NO ONE adored Greg more than me, but do NOT forget Ric did indeed sue CART over Greg's death. I don't know what the outcome was.. because I was so dicusted with it I refused to follow it.

[Liz]

I worked in insurance for many years and met many people who thought that buying insurance meant you were admitting you would die. I also worked in the shelter programs in Atlanta as a volunteer and met many people who had lost everything when they discovered that their husbands had not signed the forms or sent them in believing that because they were "young", they would never die -- death happens only to old people.

Greg Moore, if indeed that is he who is referenced in the article, probably owed money when he died -- with that kind of salary I would be surprised if he didn't -- and if he died without any insurance (his executor would not have access to the money in his bank account til he'd gone through probate), somebody would have to be responsible for those debts. Your debts don't vanish into the sky when you die. Also there is a very large "death tax" that has to be paid on the value of the "estate" that you leave, which includes possibly the value of a contract signed and in force (I am not sure about that in Canada) and any money you had collected in the form of a "signing bonus". Somebody has to pay that, too. Also all taxes are due on the money you earned until the millisecond after your death, including any investments you may have had.

Finally, somebody has to pay the executor to sort all this stuff out.

If a 20 year old race driver making $4 million per year didn't have sound advice from an accountant about all these matters, it would be a surprise to me, but since only old people die, perhaps he thought there was plenty of time to buy insurance the day before it happened.

[JohnSSC]

In the US, life insurance proceeds are non-taxable and are not considered part of the estate (the result of rather effective lobbying by the insurance industry).

I do not think it is disrespectful at all to "name anmes" so to speak. It is an interesting point on a valid subject. It is a dangerous business and no matter how much any individual driver makes they are just as entitiled to obtain insurance for death or disability like any doctor, lawyer or truck driver.

Surgeons will often get disability insurance against the chance that an illness or injury could keep them from operating and thus maintain thier current level of income. Same as with anyone else.

It is simply prudent.

[SFoWPR]

I think a few of you have missed much of the point of the original article, perhaps because it's not written as it might have been.

In the first place, John Gorsline (whom I've known for quite a few years) writes both life insurance and a very specialized form of medical insurance for high-risk athletes such as race drivers. I was standing with John when Jeremy Dale had his career-ending accident at Road Atlanta in 1995; Jeremy literally shut off the kill switch and radioed his crew to find John. As part of Jeremy's policy he was immedately air-lifted by heliopter to the best regional trauma center, where two of the best trauma surgeons available were waiting for him. EVERYTHING that could be done to save his life, his legs, and his career was done, and done by the best doctors who could be found, and it was all paid by his policy. Tommy Kendall had the same service when he crashed at Watkins Glen.

If you ask around the paddock at any professional race series in North America you'll find that John, and his services, are well known. Not every driver buys coverage from John, (and for that matter not every driver buys insurance at all) but I believe you'll find that most professional drivers regard insurance of this type as a vital part of their racing program.

(Life insurance may be a different issue, but go to your "regular" agent and tell him you are a professional race driver, and ask for a quote.)

I have nothing to do with insurance, but I have helped bring a few young drivers into racing over the years, and I always had three rules for a young aspring professional: (1) Attend the two-day course at HPI; (2) get a properly fitted HANS device, and (3) talk to John Gorsline about insurance. There were good reasons for all three.

David Seibert

[JohnSSC]

Welcome to the Forum, SFoWPR!

Thanks for the additional details on Mr. Gorsline.

Insurance is something no one wants to worry about until after they need it, I have found (and no, I am not an agent/salesman!).

[Mags]

What a facinating topic! I'd love to ask the drivers about it, but I think I'd **** them off. But heck, I think I WILL.

[Kicking-back]

Good.

Journalists shouldn't be worried about asking difficult questions.

[Mags]

OOPS! Caught by the naughty word police. It's not so much being afraid kicking-back, but a case of I really don't want to get a reputation of being one of those journalists that are always looking for the negative story. There is a lot of good stuff out there to report about. And enough negative-nellies *cough Robin Miller* out there to do that.

[JohnSSC]

What could be "negative" about asking such a question? Wouldn't a driver being asked how in such a risky business one would take care of their family or personal affairs be a way to "humanize" them if you will? You know, Driver X shares the same concerns you do when it comes to his family etc.

I would also suggest that if one reads Robin Miller's stories, there are many positive ones about racing and the people who race.

Asking good honest, objective questions is simply good journalism. Wondering what the interviewee thinks of you the interviewer personally should not enter into it. At it's fundamental root, journalism is about telling the story.

[Kicking-back]

Indeed, John.

As a journalist myself, I find it strange that someone decides the story is positive before they've even done the interview!

[Mags]

There are enough negative people out there and things; I don't need to be bringing the team down anymore.

I don't ever skirt the truth; and I've asked such hard questions I've made PR people so angry at me they have threatened to never work with me again if I do that to them again.

But in this time with Champ Cars, I feel it's important we accentuate the positive. Don't you?

[Kicking-back]

I feel it's important journalists report things as they see them, factually and without fear or favour.

An objective approach will see positive things for what they are and report them as such, but it won't be blind to bad news by trying to ignore.

[RapidTron]

Originally posted by Mags
There are enough negative people out there and things; I don't need to be bringing the team down anymore.

true there is someone at your site that specializes in that.

I don't ever skirt the truth; and I've asked such hard questions I've made PR people so angry at me they have threatened to never work with me again if I do that to them again.

unless you were hitting on the drivers i dont see why anyone would get mad at you since you only ask positive questions.

But in this time with Champ Cars, I feel it's important we accentuate the positive. Don't you?

thats what pr people do. a real journalist is supposed to report the news whether its positive or not.

[Mags]

Hum, I sniff an insult there, but I'll pass over that for now. ME hitting on the drivers?? That's a laugh. That is SUCH a laugh. Do you honestly think they would let me around them if that is all I did?

And as for being a "real" journalist, I guess being linked up with the ALMS/IMSA site for the 24 Hours of Le Mans qualifies, HUM? Because We Were.

Anyhow, this "not so real" journalist is now heading off to the airport to go to Sonoma to cover the ALMS race there this weekend. I'll send my "love" to all the "boys" there from the 10/10th's gang!

[JohnSSC]

"But in this time with Champ Cars, I feel it's important we accentuate the positive. Don't you?"

posted by Mags.

No, I don't! If one is a journalist then one reports the event as it is. They should not be deciding before the reporting begins what the tone and tenor of the reporting will be. That then takes reporting into the "infomercial" realm if you will where the facts are spun to promote a particular point of view.

Sometimes the facts lead to a neutral conclusion. Sometimes the facts lead to a positive conclusion. sometimes the facts lead to a negative conclusion. However, it should be the reader that decides, not the writer.

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by SFoWPR

In the first place, John Gorsline (whom I've known for quite a few years) writes both life insurance and a very specialized form of medical insurance for high-risk athletes such as race drivers. I was standing with John when Jeremy Dale had his career-ending accident at Road Atlanta in 1995; Jeremy literally shut off the kill switch and radioed his crew to find John. As part of Jeremy's policy he was immedately air-lifted by heliopter to the best regional trauma center, where two of the best trauma surgeons available were waiting for him. EVERYTHING that could be done to save his life, his legs, and his career was done, and done by the best doctors who could be found, and it was all paid by his policy. Tommy Kendall had the same service when he crashed at Watkins Glen.

David Seibert

I was there that day at Road Atlanta. Steve Millens career ending accident happened right in front of me. I'll never forget his hood from the 300zx flipping 40-50 feet in the air in slow motion and everyone running to get out of the way. I still had a piece of the guardrail and car until last year as a reminder of what can happen. That accident convinced me at the time that I would never race without insurance and I never will. The more cover the better. A lot of ASN's around the world are now including some insurance with the licence cost, but I would still have additional cover.

[RapidTron]

Originally posted by Mags
Hum, I sniff an insult there, but I'll pass over that for now. ME hitting on the drivers?? That's a laugh. That is SUCH a laugh. Do you honestly think they would let me around them if that is all I did?

i never said you did. but arent you at least one bit curious as to why some pr people hate you? you said you only focus on the positive. so that cant be why they dont like you. i assume you are a nice lady when dealing with ccws, so that cant be it either. but then you said yourself that you ask questions of pornographic nature and you always talk about how cute so-and-so is. but hey whatever floats your boat

And as for being a "real" journalist, I guess being linked up with the ALMS/IMSA site for the 24 Hours of Le Mans qualifies, HUM? Because We Were.

Anyhow, this "not so real" journalist is now heading off to the airport to go to Sonoma to cover the ALMS race there this weekend. I'll send my "love" to all the "boys" there from the 10/10th's gang!

getting back on topic i still dont see why you are so afriad of asking about insurance. but hell if i was running a series i would have no problem handing out hard cards to people who are paying to do extra pr for the series

[Liz]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
What could be "negative" about asking such a question? Wouldn't a driver being asked how in such a risky business one would take care of their family or personal affairs be a way to "humanize" them if you will? You know, Driver X shares the same concerns you do when it comes to his family etc.

I would suggest that when at the race track, the vast majority of drivers don't want people asking what would happen to their families if they were to die that day. (And with the lawsuit-happy *cough* John Edwards *cough* atmosphere in the United States these days, should the driver ACTUALLY DIE in that race, I personally don't want a lawyer pointing out that I was asking questions of a suspicious nature in the paddock the day he died.) People who go onto the track with the idea that they're going to die are a danger to themselves and other drivers.

It might be a good question to ask in a completely different setting though, if you got an interview during a non-race event perhaps.

[JohnSSC]

I was not advocating that that specific question be asked routinely. If one were doing a "getting to know" the driver piece that is a question that could be asked. If one is a public figure, particulary someone making their living in a hazardous sport, then they should be open to being asked that sort of question or aware that it could be asked.

I do not think anyone would view the question as "suspicious" even if (God forbid) something did happen. I would be curious (pm me if you like with the details as it is off-topic)as to how/why John Edwards (attorney? The guy who communicates to dead people?) would have anything to do with racing driver interview questions.

Having done the race driver thing I would suggest that if your ability to focus is that fragile that an interview question would send you out on the track in a sort of impaired state, then you shouldn't be going out there at all - ever.