Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[dsegs]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

That was announced a few weeks ago that Chrysler were evaluating a return with the Viper, with the help of Riley.

I completely forgot that the Viper is/was a Dodge, was wondering what they would be promoting by going to Le Mans. Dodges are trucks in my mind for some reason...

[alexkiller8]

"return"? maybe should be called "debut" because late '90 and '00 viper gt cars were built by oreca and reynard motorsport.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

"return"? maybe should be called "debut" because late '90 and '00 viper gt cars were built by oreca and reynard motorsport.

It was a collaboration beetween Chrysler North America, Oreca and Reynard, just like the new proposal is a collaboration between Chrysler and Riley.

So yes, it is a "return"

[J.C.]

It would be nice to see Oreca step down to GT class, and race the new Viper. Put a hurting on them chezzy yellow cars, as they did in the past...

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

It was a collaboration beetween Chrysler North America, Oreca and Reynard, just like the new proposal is a collaboration between Chrysler and Riley.

So yes, it is a "return"

chrysler role was really marginal, didn't even do the chassis for the race cars.... the engine supplied was modified for the race (not by chrysler) so if i have to think about some percentuals... i say 60% reynard, 35% oreca and 5% chrysler..... let's say in this way; a new viper gte will be more a "debut" than a "return"

[AGD]

Originally Posted by dsegs

I completely forgot that the Viper is/was a Dodge, was wondering what they would be promoting by going to Le Mans. Dodges are trucks in my mind for some reason...

Oddly enough, Dodge no longer markets trucks (at least here in the US). Chrysler trucks are now sold through the "RAM" brand. I realize this probably does not make sense, but few things the big 3 do make sense. To that extent, it makes perfect sense!

The Chrysler return to Le Mans rumor is not a new one, but it will be nice to see it happen. The Dodge-Chevrolet GTS battles got a lot of attention here back in the day. Of course, things are a little different than back then in that a Le Mans car can't go and win the Daytona 24 and the FIA GT championship, but still GM is making good use of the GTE class. I think I heard that the new Viper may have a Ferrari engine option or something? That would certainly be an odd, but yet interesting, mix.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by AGD

Oddly enough, Dodge no longer markets trucks (at least here in the US). Chrysler trucks are now sold through the "RAM" brand. I realize this probably does not make sense, but few things the big 3 do make sense. To that extent, it makes perfect sense!

The Chrysler return to Le Mans rumor is not a new one, but it will be nice to see it happen. The Dodge-Chevrolet GTS battles got a lot of attention here back in the day. Of course, things are a little different than back then in that a Le Mans car can't go and win the Daytona 24 and the FIA GT championship, but still GM is making good use of the GTE class. I think I heard that the new Viper may have a Ferrari engine option or something? That would certainly be an odd, but yet interesting, mix.

sure... in a parallele fringe universe, but in the reality maybe can have an "european" v8-v12 engine structure that resembles a ferrari's engine.... a technology swapped from new "52%" owners... but i think this is a really unrealistic scenario

[Simmi]

In the middle of a mildly entertaining twitter spat between John Dagys and Endurancesportscar this little tidbit came out:

Also word is 2 additional R18s could be run by Abt or another nxt year. Of course this is still spec ¬ #Fact but hey that's why your here.

http://twitter.com/#!/endurancesport

Interesting bit of 'speculation'.

[alexkiller8]

mmm abt can't be considered a "private team" because of his partnership with audi in dtm and other sectors, this may mean or that team joest will retire (maybe to help porsche with new lmp1) and abt will take his place, or that audi wants to create a sort of "army" of work teams as AMR did in GT1 in 2007 with AMR,larbre,BMS.

[JAG]

These days you don't run any factory developed P1 without a healthy amount of factory support.

The other rumour is ORECA running Nissan's.

[DS"]

Abt running two R18's could mean that Abt will reduce its DTM commitment in 2012. If those rumours are true that is.

[Simmi]

Not sure if Graham Goodwin's last tweet had anything to do with these "rumours".

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Simmi

In the middle of a mildly entertaining twitter spat between John Dagys and Endurancesportscar this little tidbit came out:



http://twitter.com/#!/endurancesport

Interesting bit of 'speculation'.

Noticed that little display earlier.

As much as it's great having a number of (hopefully) well-sourced parties to report on these matters, couldn't help but side with Dagys (re: reporting on fact, as opposed to (perhaps at this stage) 'speculation').

Originally Posted by DS"

Abt running two R18's could mean that Abt will reduce its DTM commitment in 2012. If those rumours are true that is.

Wasn't there another rumour regarding Audi plans to scale back DTM involvement on the whole? Seem to recall Hindy hinting at something during the Imola broadcast, and possibly reading something elsewhere.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by DS"

Abt running two R18's could mean that Abt will reduce its DTM commitment in 2012. If those rumours are true that is.

mmm don't know, if phoenix or rosberg team will retire from DTM audi could run without customers partner or find other teams to lease their cars, but in the last years the abt team has managed all official cars, it's hard to believe that audi will renunce to a so expert and performant team the next year. I can't speak for sure because i don't know, but in my opinion abt is involved in the project and production of new a5 dtm too (as abt did with a4).

[FordCosworthPanoz]

John Dagys vs EnduranceSportsCar twitter war is funny. Will Power and Dario Franchitti step aside...

[Speed-King]

With the addition of BMW to DTM, Mercedes and Audi will have to field fewer cars themselves to make for a full field, so it makes sense that one of Audis current DTM-teams could run some LMPs...

If it's indeed Abt, I really hope they give one of their seats to Christopher Mies. The guy has been pretty spectacular in a GT3 and I'd really like to see what he can do in a proto.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

Wasn't there another rumour regarding Audi plans to scale back DTM involvement on the whole? Seem to recall Hindy hinting at something during the Imola broadcast, and possibly reading something elsewhere.

As Speed-king has already mentioned, Audi (and Mercedes) reduce their DTM programs to six cars from 2012 on. The question is of course, which teams will run their new A5's. If Abt only runs two cars in 2012, they might get some space for an LMP program. But they are very inexperienced in running prototypes.

[chernaudi]

Well, from one mystery to another, that of customer car programs and how Audi may fit in.

During an interesting exchange between John Dagys and Endurance Sport on Twitter, ES claims that Abt Sportline has been linked in a rumor to be running "customer" R18s next year in the WEC.

This is a speculative rumor right now on the part of Endurance Sport, but Abt has been a loyal Audi customer for years, and has run Audi efforts in the DTM series and the N24. They're also based in Germany and have obvious access to some serious talent in the Audi camp.

Add in the fact that they have the Red Bull sponsorship and RBR pulling out of NASCAR as a team owner, maybe DM thinks that sponsoring Abt and Audi in the WEC can reap some bang for relatively few bucks.

An interesting possibility and makes the most sense out of a lot of the proposals for an Audi "customer" team, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[chernaudi]

A DTM car is as about as close as you can get to a prototype and still maintain a basic road car shape with a FR drive train.

It's an interesting possibility--a successful team for Audi with a long history with them, the Red Bull sponsor money, and getting more Audi drivers a full season WEC ride, and trying to out-number Peugeot, who have no current plans to field customer cars.

That being said, I'd have to side with John, who hasn't denied the possibility himself of this happening, but I guess that this is a "wait and see" and "I'll believe it when I see it" deal.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, from one mystery to another, that of customer car programs and how Audi may fit in.

During an interesting exchange between John Dagys and Endurance Sport on Twitter, ES claims that Abt Sportline has been linked in a rumor to be running "customer" R18s next year in the WEC.

This is a speculative rumor right now on the part of Endurance Sport, but Abt has been a loyal Audi customer for years, and has run Audi efforts in the DTM series and the N24. They're also based in Germany and have obvious access to some serious talent in the Audi camp.

Add in the fact that they have the Red Bull sponsorship and RBR pulling out of NASCAR as a team owner, maybe DM thinks that sponsoring Abt and Audi in the WEC can reap some bang for relatively few bucks.

An interesting possibility and makes the most sense out of a lot of the proposals for an Audi "customer" team, but I'll believe it when I see it.

What makes Abt and unlikely choice is that they´re very busy, running both the DTM (which already clashed with the ILMC this year) and the ADAC GT Masters where they are the de-facto Audi works squad.

That makes up for 20+ race weekends a year so I don't really see where they can find the resources to run a LMP programme too...unless they majorly expand their operation.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

A DTM car is as about as close as you can get to a prototype and still maintain a basic road car shape with a FR drive train.

It's an interesting possibility--a successful team for Audi with a long history with them, the Red Bull sponsor money, and getting more Audi drivers a full season WEC ride, and trying to out-number Peugeot, who have no current plans to field customer cars.

That being said, I'd have to side with John, who hasn't denied the possibility himself of this happening, but I guess that this is a "wait and see" and "I'll believe it when I see it" deal.

dtm cars ARE prototypes.
About customers program i don't agree with the possible choice of audi, ok maybe audi will have a second work team, but peugeot can always give official support with cars and tech to oreca like last year... if i should choice in a lmp1 program between abt and oreca, i will blindly choice oreca.

[chernaudi]

Christian Abt drove for Audi at Le Mans in 2000, if that's worth anything.

And also, I'd think the words "satellite team" are in order here if this does happen. Abt will probably have a relationship with Joest similar to what Tony Stewart/Stewart-Haas Racing has in NASCAR.

SHR is it's own entity as a team, but they buy cars and engines from Hendrick Motorsports and gets support from GM and HMS.

If Abt does run R18s next year, I'd expect a similar synergy between them and Joest.

[chernaudi]

As I said in the WEC rumors thread, expect the words "satellite team" to be bandied about a lot if this does happen.

And I'll provide the same example: Abt will be to Joest and Audi Sport what Tony Stewart and Stewart-Haas Racing is to Rick Hendrick/Hendrick Motorsports and GM in NASCAR.

SHR is it's own unique business entity and team, but buys cars and engines from HMS, and gets support from HMS and GM.

I think that we can suppose that Abt my recieve similar treatment as far as a synergy with Audi and Joest. And also it has been suggested that since BMW has come back to DTM, Audi and Mercedes-Benz might field fewer cars as BMW will provide teams to make a full field.

I don't know what to make of that, but if Abt is a Joest satellite, they probably won't have trouble running 2 cars (Joest has more than enough people to run 3 cars as LM the last several years has demonstrated) except for Le Mans, but Joest hasn't had much trouble recruting ex-Champion Racing employees who are willing to spend a good chunk of the year in Europe as well as people from other Audi affillated teams.

So I don't think that personel will be a big problem for Abt if they do indeed run such a program, which remains to be seen if it's fact or a simple rumor that someone started.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

As I said in the WEC rumors thread, expect the words "satellite team" to be bandied about a lot if this does happen.

And I'll provide the same example: Abt will be to Joest and Audi Sport what Tony Stewart and Stewart-Haas Racing is to Rick Hendrick/Hendrick Motorsports and GM in NASCAR.

SHR is it's own unique business entity and team, but buys cars and engines from HMS, and gets support from HMS and GM.

I think that we can suppose that Abt my recieve similar treatment as far as a synergy with Audi and Joest. And also it has been suggested that since BMW has come back to DTM, Audi and Mercedes-Benz might field fewer cars as BMW will provide teams to make a full field.

I don't know what to make of that, but if Abt is a Joest satellite, they probably won't have trouble running 2 cars (Joest has more than enough people to run 3 cars as LM the last several years has demonstrated) except for Le Mans, but Joest hasn't had much trouble recruting ex-Champion Racing employees who are willing to spend a good chunk of the year in Europe as well as people from other Audi affillated teams.

So I don't think that personel will be a big problem for Abt if they do indeed run such a program, which remains to be seen if it's fact or a simple rumor that someone started.

Your comparison dosen't make any sense. SHR just receives engines from HMS, that's all... they´re their own operation, they have their own staff etc.

This is where Abt is limited, unless they majorly boost their team by hiring lots of new people there's no way they can put a WEC programme atop of running the DTM and the GT Masters.

Joest only did the DTM in 2004 when they weren't doing sports cars, BMW has decided to pull out of the ILMC because of the DTM... they aren't even trying to run anything on the side.

The competition in the DTM is extremely close and I highly doubt that Audi will distract their strongest DTM team with such a second effort...especially since 2012 will be year where everybody will be starting somewhat fresh in the DTM and no one can afford to fall behind.

It has already been confirmed that all three manufacturers will be fielding six cars each and you can bet on Abt being one of the team's for Audi since they have been their best bullet in the DTM over the years.

I´m not saying the customer R18s won't be happening but certainly not with Abt as long as the DTM goes on...and certainly not next year which will be DTM's most important season for years.

[Aysedasi]

I don't think we really need customer R18 and Abt speculation in two threads now do we? Make your minds up - here or in the R18 thread?