Genuine vs non original

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I think we can let that one go Terence, the pace of some cars/races would certainly suggest alls not bog standard

[James Murray]

In light of your comment John, I take it the WSM grid included the continuation/replica B16's and T70's?

[John Turner]

The winning T70 was a continuation car!

[Peter Mallett]

Unsurprising.

[James Murray]

Depressing

[john ruston]

Not only Lola's ,Chevron's ,Lotus etc,now McLaren Can Am cars.Sell while you can boys!

[James Murray]

I thought Maters publicly made a point of not accepting any them earlier in the year? The flood gates are beginning to open then...........

[Peter Mallett]

The Masters position has been discussed elsewhere, but one point to be made is that spectators probably don't care whether the car is a genuine original or a continuation. A shame really because most of us would delight in racing a genuine car.

[zefarelly]

its not that the public don't care, they just don't know, its a similar situation with saloons of all ages, they just see mini, or cortina, or capri, individual cars can be double the power of the next depending on spec/regs

[James Murray]

But what about the owners of the real cars who are blown away by new cars and see the value of their car plummet because you can go and buy a new one for way less. All the real ones will end up in museums........

I'm not sure about your point about spectators either Peter. The vast majority who attend the likes of the Silverstone Classic are well informed and knowledgeable people and probably know more about the cars than some of the owners/drivers. They/we go to these events because they provide the oppurtunity to see rare/significant historical vehicles being used as they should be. To many myself included to find out 1/2 the field is made up of replicas is dissapointing to say the least.

[zefarelly]

one problem is there will always be someone who owns an original but rebuilds it with their considerable budget, to the point it may as well be a continuation car . . . how and where do you draw the line ?

I'd like to help make a difference to genuine historic saloon racing, but there appears to be a whole grid ful of brand new cars of which many still have fresh sea mist on the roof and the smell of new crate Engines under the bonnet, its nigh on impossible to write a universal set of regs as there are so many different series, its hard enough to write a fair set for even a restricted group.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The Masters position has been discussed elsewhere, but one point to be made is that spectators probably don't care whether the car is a genuine original or a continuation. A shame really because most of us would delight in racing a genuine car.

In that case lets hope the respective constructors build hundreds more,it should bring this originals prices down so we could afford one each

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

one problem is there will always be someone who owns an original but rebuilds it with their considerable budget, to the point it may as well be a continuation car . . . how and where do you draw the line ?

I'd like to help make a difference to genuine historic saloon racing, but there appears to be a whole grid ful of brand new cars of which many still have fresh sea mist on the roof and the smell of new crate Engines under the bonnet, its nigh on impossible to write a universal set of regs as there are so many different series, its hard enough to write a fair set for even a restricted group.

How about ,If you can,t give proof that it,s original,you aint racing it!Thats fair.

[Farbrooke]

Originally Posted by terence bower

How about ,If you can,t give proof that it,s original,you aint racing it!Thats fair.

On the FIA Heritage web pages there are details of the FIA Heritage Certificate which I understood was one up from an HTP and is limited to original cars - not road cars with make overs or continuation cars - Such a document would set an original car apart from its 'modern' conterparts and by use of say coloured race numbers would enable organisers to show the spectator which was which because there would have to be a full grid of original cars to enable to circuit charges to be met.

[Peter Mallett]

James,

So if the Silverstone crowd figures are right, there were 40 thousand experts there at the weekend? Hmmm.

My point is illustrated by Zef. They see the car not its history.

I concur, the loss to those with original cars is extremely sad but your point about the cars ending up in museums is perhaps more important.

I confess to a certain level of frustration with the subject because all I seem to read is that continuation cars should be banned yet nobody is willing, or possibly able, to suggest where all the original cars are to fill the grids! And of course it is these missing cars that are providing the space for the continuation cars.

I think we must face the fact that these cars are here to stay and like it or not the organisers will allow them.

Now if I keep this job for another year I might be able to afford that new Cologne Capri that Weslake can build for me.

[chrisks]

its all very well knocking continuation cars but in reality we all know full well that some of the cars out there were never made in period or by the original manufacturer.
Glass house/stones!!

[john ruston]

But many were!

[rbs]

Where do you stop, once a car has been crashed and new parts need to be fitted, is it original still?. How many ERA's would we see racing if they had to be original?. On the other hand should one of todays Lola T70 be allowed to race a period but repaired car? Should they be in the 750MC sports & GT series?

[terence]

Why not?750 have a serie,s for kit car,s.

[rbs]

I do not believe that a T70 would be eligible for kit cars but it would in Sports & GT. After all several of todays GT40's and Crossles happily compete there.

[zefarelly]

now theres another cont car, how many gt40's have risen from the ashes in the last few years, thinking about it, most of the cars are effectively new anyway, therefore ban originals, problem solved !

I've just serviced the brakes on my car, new pads etc . . .and whilst I was down there I was admiring the original zeibart underseal which remains under the car . . . . which explains why its not been welded up yet . . . I'd also like to think it goes some way to explaining some lap times, but in total its probably no more than a medium rare fillet steak and a botle of decent claret!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Now if I keep this job for another year I might be able to afford that new Cologne Capri that Weslake can build for me.

does Mrs M know your ordering ANOTHER ONE?

[johnh875]

If the continuation cars/replicas make the racing possible via providing grid numbers it is hard to say get rid of them. However I do agree they should be distinguished from original cars, for example in the program & on the cars signage/numbering.

[john ruston]

People seem to confuse continueous history with new cars.This term continuation cars used for new cars is rubbish.They are replicas and nothing else.

[rogerwills]

Yes, the question at Silverstone got a big round of applause. It was basically "why are there seven reserves who will not get to race when there are seven 'continuation replicas' on the grid?. Shouldn't real cars be given an entry first and then if there are space for more the replicas could run?"

I must say though that there was quite a tight focus on papers, compliance with specifications etc this weekend at Silverstone by Masters and I think its very good. All the V8 cars were sent to Parc Ferme after qualifying and everyone had to have their papers with them. All cars were weighed, all wheelbase measurements checked, etc etc. They were checking head materials when we were told we could leave - seemed they were happy with the Corvette. But one very quick Corvette was sent to the back of the grid for the race (not sure what they didn't like about it - perhaps it is a small block with 4 wheel discs like most of them...............).

So there is action being taken.

Roger