WSBK on Channel 4 for 2005

[racer69]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Dillude myself? Ha! I dont think im the one being dillousinal, Walker is well past his use by date and u know it, if he came back to BSB at any time he would have got his ass well and truly kicked IMO. Oh, and if u want to use a piece of information like that to boost the WSBK series answer me this, why has Shayne Byrne said recently that if hes not in Moto GP it will be BSB? No mention of WSBK, and it sure as hell isnt because he woudnt be competitive enough, no its because he knows that the best competiton outside of Moto GP is in the BSB paddock at the moment. Just like Jeremey McWilliams knows too and has therefore decided to come back to BSB rather than WSBK, and dont tell me u beleive McWilliams coudnt have got a competitive ride in WSBK had he really wanted to. WSBK has guys from BSB yes I admit, people like Kagayama who whilst fast, just werent fast enough to beat the "veterans" of the BSB paddock, or to even take the runner up spot on what was the best bike, in the best team on the grid in the 04 season.

Kagayama isn't a fair example. He was very competitive both years he was there, but both his years were ruined by injuries.

Remember Byrne and Monstermob were originally planning on stepping up to World Superbike in 2004 (after Byrne's 2003 double at Brands, Bird reckoned it was a definate). Obviously it didn't come off (due to Byrne going to Aprilia and possibly the control Pirelli deal). They wanted to step up. Could Byrne have mentioned stepping back because he wants to hook back up with Paul Bird? Renegade made the step up last year (used some BSB rounds as a test session), and did very very, and are staying there in WSB.

I think you would find that if any of the top young guys in BSB were offered a top factory/works supported seat in World Superbikes, they would jump at it. You will of course disagree, but how many have been offered the chance?

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

By the same token, where else is there for the top guys in BSB to go other than Moto GP? WSBK isnt competitive enough at the moment IMO, and the series does seem to be more of a breeding ground for potential Moto GP stars than WSBK does at the moment, WSBK to me is turning into a bit of a retirement village for ex Moto GP stars and guys who cant quite cut it in BSB, sure theres a few good young guys in the series at the moment, but how come nobody picked up Toseland after winning the WSBK crown in 2004? Or even tested him.

In all the years of World Superbikes, bugger all of the top riders have gone on to 500cc/MotoGP. It's only in the last few years that alot of top guys have moved up (due to the switch to 4 strokes in GP).

The only BSB rider from last year to pick up a ride this year in MotoGP was James Ellison, a privateer last year. Where is the breeding ground, why weren't any of the higher placed young guns offered a seat?


The bottom line is there is that no matter how much you try and pump it up, BSB is just a national series, a very good one (like the AMA series), but certainly not a World Championship.

There is a reason there is a huge influx of new interest from the Japanese this year (getting around there original intent on boycotting WSB), they weren't getting enough exposure, enough coverage worldwide, from the national series (BSB and AMA) that they thought they would concentrate on instead.

What would garner more interest and more notice in South Africa, New Zealand or China. A pair of national championships, or a World Championship series.

[SALEEN S7R]

Im not saying BSB is a World championship, as the name says, it is the "British" superbike championship and not the "world" superbike championship. The fact remains though that the teams and riders in the BSB series are all equally as good as the guys in WSBK, if not better. And the levels of factory support in BSB are IMO on a parr with WSBK for sure. Anyway, ive said my piece on this subject and we all know where one another stand's, theres nothing to be gained by me continuing in this thread, it will just go on and on and on in one big vicous circle, which i am sure nobody here wants.

[BootsOntheSide]

By the time Shaky knew that Aprillia wouldn't be returning to MotoGP, all the top WSBK seats were taken. And I don't see how McWilliams could be competitive against a field as strong as WSBK on circuits he doesn't know, besides that he proabbly doesn't want to travel so much now that he's past 40.

As for WSBK 'not being competitive enough', I'd bet on more different riders winning races in it than in BSB, and those riders will be some of the best of the world,rather than some of the best in Britain plus a Japanese extra to prop up a factory team.

[Alex Toropov]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Byrne was in a full factory effort Aprilla team and bike, MS racing who McWilliams rode for were not a full blown factory effort in the same way that Aprilla Racing was. Its a bit like saying that Gibernau didnt have a advantage over Biagi last year because they are both on Honda's, which obviously isnt the case because as we all know the Telefonica/Repsol Honda teams are the #1 Honda squad's, with Camel getting a lot of the development parts later.

All that is beside the by though, because McWilliams ultimately finished ahead of Byrne in the points standings. And even had Byrne not broken his hand theres nothing to say that he would have beaten McWilliams in the end.

never heard about such disparity in Aprilia MotoGP team before, so thanks for info. were there any other examples of that in other teams?

as for Honda, i thought, only works Repsol squad was #1 team, Telefonica (like Camel) wasn't. both Gibernau & Biaggi were receiving new parts later than Barros & Hayden (for example, new exhaust system), while Edwards said, that he didn't get any updates for his bike at all (don't know anything about Tamada's relationship with HRC though)

[chunder]

That's because there was no dipsarity between the Aprilia teams!
As for Honda they are nputting all their effort behind Max in the same way Yamaha did and are doing with Vale.
Butthe problem is going to be the style of riding for everyone else who gets the bits off the back. HRC know that Max rides it different to Sete or Bayliss or Tamada or anyone else but they won't build different bits for different riders.
Problem last year was that really Barros and Hayden are not the sort of riders to pus through big changes to the bikes, but Max is and will make the bike set up for himself, so Sete will not like it coz he is an adaptale rider like Vale who can ride front and rear, Max can only rider front and that dictates a different chassis design.
Its gonna be interesting to see who comes out of it all with a good feeling, Tamada at the moment looks very good but as with Japanese riders you have to wait til the grid forms and the race is in its last 5 laps to see if he will still be quick!!

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Reynolds and Rutter 1st and 2nd again ATF? Fancy putting your money where ur mouth is? Im seeing a Rizla Suzuki 1-2 in the BSB championship this year, Smart coming in 2nd just behind Reynolds.

Whoops!

U reckon Kiyonaris Honda is quicker than Rutters? Also why the other Hondas so poor in comparison? esp the Stobart ones.

Hopefully Lavilla will do the season, hes got to be a better team-mate to learn from for Rocket Rons boy than Haydon is/was/could be. What do you think of the arguement Haydons had his chances and blown them (im thinking FPR in particular)?? iS HE OVERRATTED?

[BootsOntheSide]

Apparently Lavilla will be staying with the team in the short term, it's funny how sometimes these opportunities emerge and riders make use of them. The same thing happened for Haydon last year, but it does seem like he has a habit of crashing and wasting opportunities. In WSBK he has never shone, and in Britain he's always been good but not great.

Kiyonari's form ths season puts a new perspective on things. In MotoGP he came in under diffiuclt circusmtances and had to learn a lot very quickly in a team which probably didn't give him that much support, and then in 2004 he had to learn a lot of totally new stuff. In situations like this a second season is almost always better, and he is now getting a chance to show his raw pace, really showing Rutter up in the process. For whatever reason Suzuki really don't look fast in BSB, and Scott Smart has certainly disappointed so far.

[chunder]

Kiyo was actually held back a lot last year and wasnt allowed to put his own settings on the bike, they let Rutter have his way a bit more but Kiyo was developing things on the bike for the 8H I reckon.
From Mallory on he was allowed a bit more freedom and hey presto hits form!
I also think Greg should get the Airwaves ride! I mean they could win the championship couldnt they and that is what Wrigleys are gonna want, Haydon has no points!
As for the other Honda's, they are only kit bikes without the HRC backup of the HM PLant machines so they have to get the bikes up to speed without the backup.
Birdy has been *****ing about the lack of pace but he only has to look at WSBK and the Klaffi bikes to se how to get up to speed.
Just dont look at Renegade with their ex factory Honda USA rider!!

[BootsOntheSide]

Lavilla will be staying with the team, Haydon has decided to leave the squad having not raced for them so far. I don't think I've ever seen this situation occur - it's a shaem the origianl plan of running 3 bikes didn't come off. It's quite an embarassment for someone like Gregorio to come into the series and take 4 podiums out of 4, on a bike he's never raced, at one track he's never raced at, against the best of the UK (including a hugely promising team-mate.

[chunder]

Is this for real, blimey that is huge news! Sounds like Coin Wright had to make a hugely difficult decision!
Must be a massive disappointment for Haydon but it has to be said he did crash a hell of a lot in testing didn't he and I agree with you Boots, Greg has been a revelation to be honest on a completely new bike on a few tracks he doesnt know to be so high up.
From a business point of view it is the right decision but from a contracts point of view, I would love to know what went on and how the situation was resolved!!