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Old 3 Oct 2017, 21:27 (Ref:3771602)   #1
CS1
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World Rallycross Championship 2018

Anyone care to make any predictions ......?
Any rumours or thoughts?

Whats the latest with EKS... didnt they auction the cars in Germany?
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Old 3 Oct 2017, 21:34 (Ref:3771605)   #2
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 09:56 (Ref:3771715)   #3
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IMG usually manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat somewhere.

But I think you would be blind if you did not admit the series has stagnated totally this year.

I think the events are doing well, but the racing is perhaps not matching that. Very predictable and you can almost name the finalists before the event has started. They have what they want, manufacturers wanted them only racing, but that offers nothing for the neutral.

Some of the tracks are decent, Riga seems good, although narrow in places and again not really encouraging racing in the pure sense, more heavy stops and one line tracks that initiate contact like Mettet and Barcelona and Portugal. This is bad.

They are dumping the rwd series, as they should have done years ago, and even S1600 seems to be suffering a little, so that might be around for too long. Do we like RX Lites? On this forum you all will no doubt because of Rook, but they are very samey and don't offer much, and offer nothing in terms of variety and sound.

I think personally IMG need to be doing more to reduce costs, VW have moved the goalposts budget wise to WRC levels, and EKS did not help that much with their approach. It is far too expensive, and to develop bespoke cars to this level costs tens of millions. VW have simply thrown that money at testing as the car was already made in effect.

Testing limit needs to be brought in, no car limit as budgets can dictate if a guy wants to lease an Audi or VW from the team for a year.

And for us, simply put, we all need to avoid the temptation of Silverstone, it's easy to buckle when you see it on the horizon, but the costs are almost insulting. SO stay away, the track looks weak, though I will say it is very dirt based, but small, compact and not very interesting. and we would be miles away from the action I am expecting.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 10:45 (Ref:3771725)   #4
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Hansen-Peugeot are very bitter towards VW and PSRX. H-P thinks that PSRX have a huge advantage in budget and a car that has undergone extensive and expensive development from WRC that H-P and others just can't match. PSRX instead argues that they have a very good and cooperative team, especially between Solberg and Kristoffersson. They also emphasise that they are privateers.

From some articles I've read Peugeot will either quit or try to match PSRX next year, no decision has been taken yet. Peugeot has also been struck by a "diesel gate" in France.

EKS aren't sure at the moment but Ekström wants manufacture backing if he is to continue since PSRX has stepped it up. Audi doesn't seem to have been very involved this year. Ekström isn't as frustrated as H-P though with PSRX.

Swedish NWT wrote that FIA was interested in the Lites so I guess it will go on.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 11:39 (Ref:3771742)   #5
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... the racing is perhaps not matching that. Very predictable and you can almost name the finalists before the event has started. They have what they want, manufacturers wanted them only racing, but that offers nothing for the neutral.
This does seem to be what IMG wanted - the same teams and drivers in the finals every time. Much easier to market a smaller group of 'star' drivers than a mottley collection of locals and amateurs.

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Do we like RX Lites? On this forum you all will no doubt because of Rook, but they are very samey and don't offer much, and offer nothing in terms of variety and sound.
Lites isn't as bad as I feared it would be - the racing (when I've seen it) does seem to be ok. I agree though that more variety in body shapes would be good and the noise isn't great. On the whole though it's not a class I really get the point of - if it was cheap then I'd understand it more.

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I think personally IMG need to be doing more to reduce costs
Yep - although it may be too late for that already. Budgets have ballooned very quickly and it'll be hard to drag that back down to sustainable levels.

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And for us, simply put, we all need to avoid the temptation of Silverstone, it's easy to buckle when you see it on the horizon, but the costs are almost insulting. SO stay away, the track looks weak, though I will say it is very dirt based, but small, compact and not very interesting. and we would be miles away from the action I am expecting.
There is no temptation where Silverstone is concerned. That cost would be considered taking the **** even if it was at a decent circuit. There's no way I can justify that cost (and even if I could justify it I'd resent having to pay for all the shite I'm not interested in just to see the Rallycross).

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Hansen-Peugeot are very bitter towards VW and PSRX. H-P thinks that PSRX have a huge advantage in budget and a car that has undergone extensive and expensive development from WRC that H-P and others just can't match. PSRX instead argues that they have a very good and cooperative team, especially between Solberg and Kristoffersson. They also emphasise that they are privateers.

From some articles I've read Peugeot will either quit or try to match PSRX next year, no decision has been taken yet. Peugeot has also been struck by a "diesel gate" in France.

EKS aren't sure at the moment but Ekström wants manufacture backing if he is to continue since PSRX has stepped it up. Audi doesn't seem to have been very involved this year. Ekström isn't as frustrated as H-P though with PSRX.

Swedish NWT wrote that FIA was interested in the Lites so I guess it will go on.
So potentially Peugeot could pull the plug (so no Hansen cars in WRX) and EKS could bail out if they don't get more manufacturer backing. So that's a large chunk of the grid potentially gone. If you lose those cars it's a very thin looking field isn't it?
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 13:27 (Ref:3771770)   #6
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I think it will take those guys threatening to pull out for IMG to do something. IMG can't afford to let those guys go. Of course, IMG could always pull the plug themselves and let it collapse. Something would always be around to replace it.

One positive of this mini boom is that there are so many top spec rallycross cars on the market now. ERX field is full of reject WRX cars. Cars that 5 years ago would be winning the old ERC. For this reason we see a lot of drivers competing in the ERX and in Scandinavia and for this reason I don't think there's much concern about the future of rallycross in general.

The Lites have been good this year for one reason: bigger fields. Entries of up to 20 gives the heats purpose and makes racing better. Raymond is in a class of one though. I'd love Lutes to be RWD though. Be more fun to watch, as they seem to be on rails at times.

S1600 entries have been consistently full (30 cars) with up to 5 cars on a reserve list. Happy struggling. They should raise the limit to 35 and put them in more rounds.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 15:38 (Ref:3771788)   #7
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Well it's started, Ford pull the plug on the Focus project. No Block next year and Bakkerud looking for another drive.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 15:43 (Ref:3771791)   #8
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Just seen that Ken Block has confirmed that the Ford Performance/Hoonigan team will not be back in the World Championship next year. I must confess I had been expecting Bakkerud and Block to be a lot more competitive this year, but I still think this is a real shame to see (perhaps an early clue that Ford will be putting their money into a WRC effort though?).

Does make you worry about the World grids next year though: if EKS and Peugeot do drop out then the entry lists could look very sparse.

Despite Marklund not being as challenged as much I would have liked, the Euros produced the best racing of 2017 in my personal opinion. OK, there was quite a bit of door banging on occasions, but the entries were excellent and guessing all the semi-finalists at each event has been a real lottery.

I agree that the Lites have been better this year with a few more entrants: though Raymond has rather run away with the Championship.

Not sure about the 3 round Touring Car Championship next year: think I'd have rather seem them get a full Championship or nothing at all, but I guess it's a measured way of phasing them out.

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Old 4 Oct 2017, 16:12 (Ref:3771799)   #9
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Peugeot have committed to 2018 with Loeb at least - I expect that means there will be other Pugs too?

Interesting that they also mention E-WRX in the press release as well.....
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 16:53 (Ref:3771815)   #10
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So Ford develops a rallycross car along with M-Sport and pulls the plug after two seasons. And Swedish expert on SVT said Hoonigan was confirmed along with PSRX for next year during the Latvian round. I wonder what changed.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 16:57 (Ref:3771817)   #11
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So Ford develops a rallycross car along with M-Sport and pulls the plug after two seasons. And Swedish expert on SVT said Hoonigan was confirmed along with PSRX for next year during the Latvian round. I wonder what changed.
All the money going to the WRC instead?

Good news that Loeb is staying: as you say Bert, hopefully that means there will be more than one Peugeot.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 18:09 (Ref:3771840)   #12
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All the money going to the WRC instead?
That's what I thought - maybe put the money into the WRC program as the Fiesta looks good at the moment and maybe the Ford money will pay Ogiers wage? WRC still trumps WRX for exposure so maybe better bang for buck?
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3771857)   #13
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I think Hickey is right

This looks likely to implode very quickly to be honest, get rish quick.

But those cars will be around for a long time, as for a resurgent ERC, (not ERX) that would be good.

All it takes now is for someone to start the damn thing, run on tracks they dont run WRX at and it would take off massively,

Sod em, run S1600 and call it super fwd, run rwd, they dropped it anyway, but make a few changes, and you have supercar anyway.

Take them by the balls I say
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 19:57 (Ref:3771858)   #14
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Oh and Msport fund the WRC programme with little help from Ford, the car is not built by Ford. They make a lot of money away from WRC, Ogiers year is funded by Red Bull and VW.

Think of it like a dealer team, Ford will provide some budget yes, but not int he same way VW or Hyundai or Citroen do for their teams, Ford officially pulled funding many years ago for WRC.

And block pretty much funded the WRX effort, yes it was Msport, but Msport is not Ford factory, just Ford rally specialists

So Msport do not really need any more money, they are doing dine without it.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 06:10 (Ref:3771977)   #15
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 08:56 (Ref:3772011)   #16
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Oh and Msport fund the WRC programme with little help from Ford, the car is not built by Ford. They make a lot of money away from WRC, Ogiers year is funded by Red Bull and VW.

Think of it like a dealer team, Ford will provide some budget yes, but not int he same way VW or Hyundai or Citroen do for their teams, Ford officially pulled funding many years ago for WRC.

And block pretty much funded the WRX effort, yes it was Msport, but Msport is not Ford factory, just Ford rally specialists

So Msport do not really need any more money, they are doing dine without it.
I don't think the issue is the money as such, but Ogier said that he would want to see manufacturer backing in order to keep him at M-Sport in 2018.

I wonder where the three Focus RS RX will go?
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 09:01 (Ref:3772012)   #17
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Apparently Block's empire will keep them, they will be used as promo vehicles.

No doubt they might become available in a few years, but not right now. Weird cars anyway, so very softly set up, imagine they would be like Solbergs first two DS3's, pigs to drive.

Ogier is at Ford on a freebie basically, VW are paying for it as he was still under contract and Red Bull are funding much of the year, hence why Tanak is not in a Red Bull car.

If he stays then yes they need funding, and this is a factor, but I think he will probably go to Citroen, only issue there is that Loeb still wants to do the odd event and they don't get on too well so Ogier might prefer to stay at Ford. This could explain the budget situation yes, so I would think in recent days Ogier has been turned down by Citroen so Msport needed the money from the WRX programme. Fair enough, Blockw as doing nothing and Bakkerud, though quick has established himself as a barger and rammer. Nice move kid.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 11:25 (Ref:3772045)   #18
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Apparently Block's empire will keep them, they will be used as promo vehicles.
Ah yeah, that figures. From what has been said it seems like quite a chunk of Block (or Block's sponsors) cash has gone into those cars.

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No doubt they might become available in a few years, but not right now. Weird cars anyway, so very softly set up, imagine they would be like Solbergs first two DS3's, pigs to drive.
They were ridiculously soft at the start of last year and they looked awful at Lydden, especially Bakkerud: I remember watching him turning into the Elbow and being shocked at how much the car was rolling. His car looked really odd going through the chicane as well, it was almost rearing up as it reached the slight crest there.

They definitely got stiffer as last year progressed and I thought the Focus looked a lot more planted in the latter rounds. I expected them to extract more speed out of the car in the off season though, I really thought Bakkerud was going to be the man to beat in 2017.

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If he stays then yes they need funding, and this is a factor, but I think he will probably go to Citroen, only issue there is that Loeb still wants to do the odd event and they don't get on too well so Ogier might prefer to stay at Ford.
Do you think Ogier at Citroen is still likely? Given the performance of the C3 this year I think Ogier would be mad to move, especially if Ford are willing to commit the funds to retain him.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3772074)   #19
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I think this is quite a late decision by Msport and Hoonigan.

I would guess the resource Msport needed to run the car is likely to be going elsewhere, they runt the Bentley GT team aswell.

But I would imagine it is likely about Ogier. Though even there, Tanak has arguably been the quicker driver recently.

But he will command a large salary, probably equivalent to contributing to the WRX team as Msport do now.#~

As for Citroen, I think the fact Loeb has been sniffing around would probably mean Ogier would not be interested at all. The rumours started before Loeb started testing the car and stuff, so I would think that would put Ogier off. He would want to be the main men, the man developing the car, and at the moment the car is still loosely DS3 based and we all know who developed that!!

So, he would need firm commitments form them and maybe they could not give them.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 14:00 (Ref:3772090)   #20
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That's what I thought - maybe put the money into the WRC program as the Fiesta looks good at the moment and maybe the Ford money will pay Ogiers wage? WRC still trumps WRX for exposure so maybe better bang for buck?
I believe that Ford gets better value partnering with Ken Block to do Hoonigan / Gymkhana content than partnering with M-Sport to compete at the World Rally Championship.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 19:58 (Ref:3772158)   #21
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Not really rallycross related, but I see Ken Block has just unveiled his latest purchase (which it looks like he will be rallying next year)...



...like him or not, you can't deny that he buys the best toys!
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 06:59 (Ref:3772254)   #22
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Block strikes me as a man with the attention span of a 5 year old. He has had so many different projects. A Mk2, Lord knows how many Subaru's and Fords, Trevor Hopkins RS200, and now this.

He buys them I am sure with videos in mind, and this one will be in one I imagine.

An expert marketer, but not really with the results and driving ability to back it up.

Let's face it, he is a two bit stuntman!!
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3772268)   #23
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Block strikes me as a man with the attention span of a 5 year old. He has had so many different projects. A Mk2, Lord knows how many Subaru's and Fords, Trevor Hopkins RS200, and now this.
If I had his backing, I think I'd be collecting cars at the same rate! I assume his current association with Ford prevents him from being seen in anything else, but I understand both the gymkhana Imprezas are in his car collection. I think the the rally cars went back to Vermont Sports Cars.

The Hopkins RS200 was an odd one. Apparently the build stagnated in the UK, the car went to the US (where there were no specialists who would work on it), then it came back here when Terry Maynard bought it.

Block bought another RS200 a couple of years ago and, aside from a glimpse in the back of a video, that hasn't been seen either. That particular car was at dream spec (800+ BHP!) when it was advertised as well, so was seemingly ready to go (though I have been told since that the engine was removed before sale, so perhaps that is why that car hasn't been seen again)

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He buys them I am sure with videos in mind, and this one will be in one I imagine.
Yeah, the blurb online mentions some stage rallies and "other projects", so probably another gymkhana video.

I'd prefer to see Block out in a Fiesta R5 or similar in some Rally America events, as it would be nice to see someone challenging the SRT USA cars.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 09:43 (Ref:3772272)   #24
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Terry is well into building the car, been painted engine is done, just time. Love to know where he gets his money from, as he has a serious collection!!

Wjhat happened to Georges cars? the 307, Xsara Metro he had and others. I keep seeing Profile Park on a few top Irish rally cars, so he must still be around.

As for Block, I would think he probably owns some of the cars outright, the rest will be marketing tools, that is his business after all, driving for him is simply pleasure and fun, not a job.

He has a couple of Mk2's. Numerous Fiesta's. But this youtube clips alone make him milions so easy to ping a few hundred grand to buy a WRC Escort
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3772275)   #25
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Surprising and disappointing to see Block leave WRX.

Last year I was very positive about the Focus but they didn't make a step forward this season.
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