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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:43 (Ref:3740117)   #26
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That is all sorts of crazy
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:43 (Ref:3740118)   #27
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Pretty exciting train wreck of a race. Knew another big wreck was coming but I couldn't stop watching. Hope it stays yellow and they just end this nonsense.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:44 (Ref:3740119)   #28
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Pretty exciting train wreck. Knew another big wreck was coming but I couldn't stop watching. Hope it stays yellow and they just end this nonsense.
This race is really difficult for me to watch it looks like everybody's going to die on every corner. I don't like single-seaters at Texas. But that said this was a very lucky wreck and nobody got hurt
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:45 (Ref:3740120)   #29
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Down to seven cars on the lead lap crazy race
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:46 (Ref:3740121)   #30
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This race is really difficult for me to watch it looks like everybody's going to die on every corner. I don't like single-seaters at Texas. But that said this was a very lucky wreck and nobody got hurt
It's far more nerve racking than Indy with far less of a prize. Always hard to watch and IndyCar needs to get off the high banks.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:50 (Ref:3740122)   #31
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Dang....sadly I watch Dixon again and he crashes..
I'm some sort of jinx on Kiwi racers.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 03:50 (Ref:3740123)   #32
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Congrats to Will Power. He kept his nerve during those 10 laps before the final FCY. I don't like seeing races end under caution but in this case it was the right decision. That was not good for the blood pressure.

You have to feel really sorry for Dale Coyne, the bad luck is just relentless.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 13:17 (Ref:3740237)   #33
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It's far more nerve racking than Indy with far less of a prize. Always hard to watch and IndyCar needs to get off the high banks.
Nah - keep the high banks. Just need better aero set up
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 13:27 (Ref:3740241)   #34
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I watched the race as a replay this morning and basically the latter part of the race was a pointless crash fest.

It made me to think should IndyCar run at high banked SMI speedways at all. Atlanta and Charlotte were dropped off a long time ago with Texas as last of the three.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 13:35 (Ref:3740245)   #35
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Nah - keep the high banks. Just need better aero set up
They've had 2 decades to figure out a better aero.

It's been a bad idea ever since Charlotte and Atlanta for the IRL, and the CART Texas testing debacle in the 90s.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 14:04 (Ref:3740256)   #36
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Result

1 Will Power, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 2h32m31.0118s
2 Tony Kanaan, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Honda. 0.1978s
3 Simon Pagenaud, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 0.3740s
4 Graham Rahal, Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Dallara/Honda. 0.8112s
5 Gabby Chaves, Harding Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1.8984s
6 Marco Andretti, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 4.1632s
7 Conor Daly, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1 Lap
8 Max Chilton, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Honda. 3 Laps
9 Scott Dixon, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Honda. Contact
10 Takuma Sato, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. Contact
11 Ed Carpenter, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. Contact
12 J.R. Hildebrand, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 33 Laps
13 Josef Newgarden, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. Contact
14 James Hinchcliffe, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. Contact
15 Mikhail Aleshin, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. Contact
16 Tristan Vautier, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. Contact
17 Ed Jones, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. Contact
18 Carlos Munoz, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Chevrolet. Contact
19 Ryan Hunter-Reay, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. Contact
20 Helio Castroneves, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. Contact
21 Charlie Kimball, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Honda. Mechanical
22 Alexander Rossi, Andretti Herta. Dallara/Honda. Contact
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 14:08 (Ref:3740258)   #37
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Well, that was a mess. At least nobody was hurt, but that's some big bills for some of the smaller teams.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 14:27 (Ref:3740269)   #38
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They've had 2 decades to figure out a better aero.

It's been a bad idea ever since Charlotte and Atlanta for the IRL, and the CART Texas testing debacle in the 90s.
The DW-12 has a completely different aero configuration from its predecessor and since its introduction in 2012, the pack racing that was so much a feature of oval racing with the Dallara-IR-05, has diminished.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 14:42 (Ref:3740271)   #39
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The DW-12 has a completely different aero configuration from its predecessor and since its introduction in 2012, the pack racing that was so much a feature of oval racing with the Dallara-IR-05, has diminished.
Diminished? Last night being an anomaly? Indy was a little packy, too.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 15:05 (Ref:3740275)   #40
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A good stiff time penalty for sustained three wide formation racin' at Texas. Maybe that's something they should look at it.

I enjoyed alot of the race but, yeah, it was very messy, far too messy in parts. I was kinda embarrassed knowing Alonso was watching it. And grimy amused that Kanaan survived in a sassy second place despite all the sidelined drivers he tangled with.

I bet Alonso made a private commitment, looking at all the wrecked smoldering cars, never to race at Texas.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 15:20 (Ref:3740279)   #41
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Diminished? Last night being an anomaly? Indy was a little packy, too.
I missed most of Indy this year, so I can't comment but compared to the last few races at TMS, last nights race was rather anomalous and it's been a while since I've seen a crashathon like that.

I think a major factor is the greater parity between Chevy and Honda. Last year Chevy dominated so much, Honda were allowed to make improvements to their aero-kits during the season, plus there will have been further development with the engine. The result is Honda have definitely caught up with Chevy and looking at their performance this year, I think have the better overall package. I therefore think that accounts a lot for the field being so bunched last night.

Also I don't think the mandatory tyre stops helped. All they succeeded in doing, was produce a series of 30 lap sprint races, which didn't let the field gradually spread out and where drivers were going hell for leather, in order to get the best track position before the next mandatory stop was called.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 15:50 (Ref:3740282)   #42
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I missed most of Indy this year, so I can't comment but compared to the last few races at TMS, last nights race was rather anomalous and it's been a while since I've seen a crashathon like that.

I think a major factor is the greater parity between Chevy and Honda. Last year Chevy dominated so much, Honda were allowed to make improvements to their aero-kits during the season, plus there will have been further development with the engine. The result is Honda have definitely caught up with Chevy and looking at their performance this year, I think have the better overall package. I therefore think that accounts a lot for the field being so bunched last night.

Also I don't think the mandatory tyre stops helped. All they succeeded in doing, was produce a series of 30 lap sprint races, which didn't let the field gradually spread out and where drivers were going hell for leather, in order to get the best track position before the next mandatory stop was called.
Very good points.

Over the last few years, races on longer speedways have resulted in bunched racing. Maybe not "packs" as bad as last night, and the stops didn't help, but that wasn't the main factor in keeping them packed up. I think you hit the nail on the head on how they stayed so close for so long, which makes it extremely difficult to avoid incidents.

Throw in tire issues like they've never raced at Texas before, complete lack of proper track cleaning like I've not seen in years and some very suspect race craft by some very experienced drivers, it was a complete $hit show. I've hated this type of motor racing in both stockcars and open wheels for years. It's a recipe for disaster and last night certainly was.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 16:35 (Ref:3740289)   #43
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Very good points.

Over the last few years, races on longer speedways have resulted in bunched racing. Maybe not "packs" as bad as last night, and the stops didn't help, but that wasn't the main factor in keeping them packed up. I think you hit the nail on the head on how they stayed so close for so long, which makes it extremely difficult to avoid incidents.

Throw in tire issues like they've never raced at Texas before, complete lack of proper track cleaning like I've not seen in years and some very suspect race craft by some very experienced drivers, it was a complete $hit show. I've hated this type of motor racing in both stockcars and open wheels for years. It's a recipe for disaster and last night certainly was.
Irc, one of the commentators said that Firestone had only done some limited testing, since the track was resurfaced, which would explain the tyre issue.

The track cleaning was poor. They even threw the 4th FCY, for that very purpose.

Agreed, it was a recipe for disaster, especially for Dale Coyne and Ed Carpenter, who lost both cars. However, it was exciting stuff to watch and there in lies the rub.
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 16:45 (Ref:3740292)   #44
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Irc, one of the commentators said that Firestone had only done some limited testing, since the track was resurfaced, which would explain the tyre issue.

The track cleaning was poor. They even threw the 4th FCY, for that very purpose.

Agreed, it was a recipe for disaster, especially for Dale Coyne and Ed Carpenter, who lost both cars. However, it was exciting stuff to watch and there in lies the rub.
Thanks for the reminder about the track resurfacing and fair point. Still frustrating from the tire manufacturer; they should've done better.

This was like plate racing. White knuckles, followed by lots of totaled machines. It's lost it's appeal, imho.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 05:43 (Ref:3740408)   #45
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Diminished? Last night being an anomaly? Indy was a little packy, too.
Yeah it was an anomaly. Much like Fontana 2015.

Texas has been good for many many years now.

Resurfacing, tyre issue and the aero all contributed to last nights show.

Plenty of lessons to learn but no need for any knee jerk reactions like dropping Texas and 1.5 mile ovals
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 12:30 (Ref:3740496)   #46
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Yeah it was an anomaly. Much like Fontana 2015.

Texas has been good for many many years now.

Resurfacing, tyre issue and the aero all contributed to last nights show.

Plenty of lessons to learn but no need for any knee jerk reactions like dropping Texas and 1.5 mile ovals
Our definitions of good do not match in this case, which is fine. This year's was perhaps a bit more profound than previous races, but they've all been similar on this and similar tracks.

And it's hardly a knee jerk reaction if you've been saying it for 15 years and in this forum quite often, which I have.

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Old 13 Jun 2017, 01:35 (Ref:3740717)   #47
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Our definitions of good do not match in this case, which is fine. This year's was perhaps a bit more profound than previous races, but they've all been similar on this and similar tracks.

And it's hardly a knee jerk reaction if you've been saying it for 15 years and in this forum quite often, which I have.
Sorry - I should have clarified "good" as being non pack racing event.

2014 as an example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFokCCfUU2Y

Justin Wilson and Helio's wins in 2012 and 2013 were also a testament of how Texas is run in non pack formation.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 02:20 (Ref:3740723)   #48
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Sorry - I should have clarified "good" as being non pack racing event.

2014 as an example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFokCCfUU2Y

Justin Wilson and Helio's wins in 2012 and 2013 were also a testament of how Texas is run in non pack formation.
Fair enough. It's not a pack, but they likely were racing in closer proximity for longer periods of time than at most other tracks (hard to tell from highlights only). And with the speeds and any other variables, I find it to be unnecessarily dangerous, that can lead to Las Vegas, California and Texas this year, to name more current problem races.

I don't like it and haven't for some time. If aero packages and more wear on the new surface can break it up next year that's better, but I don't think it's worth the risk anymore to race on tracks essentially left over from IRL.

However, it is the last 1.5 mile high banked oval left, so maybe 1 batshit crazy high speed, high bank dicey race is okay.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 07:48 (Ref:3740779)   #49
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Fair enough. It's not a pack, but they likely were racing in closer proximity for longer periods of time than at most other tracks (hard to tell from highlights only).

And with the speeds and any other variables, I find it to be unnecessarily dangerous, that can lead to Las Vegas, California and Texas this year, to name more current problem races.

I don't like it and haven't for some time. If aero packages and more wear on the new surface can break it up next year that's better, but I don't think it's worth the risk anymore to race on tracks essentially left over from IRL.
So is it pack racing, racing in close proximity or just former IRL venues that you are not a fan of?

Where does Indianapolis fit into this equation? Or Iowa for that matter?

If the issue or concern is racing in close proximity then I suggest its time to look at a different sport - for this is unavoidable and goes against the very essence of auto racing.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 12:04 (Ref:3740849)   #50
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So is it pack racing, racing in close proximity or just former IRL venues that you are not a fan of?
Yes, but you left parts out for convenience to your argument.
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Where does Indianapolis fit into this equation? Or Iowa for that matter?
Indy is Indy and I already mentioned it twice here. Feel free to review those posts. To add: an aero package could work to break it up some.

Iowa speeds are sub 200 and I'm fine with 2 races there. It's not really even a comparison.
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If the issue or concern is racing in close proximity then I suggest its time to look at a different sport - for this is unavoidable and goes against the very essence of auto racing.
No. It really doesn't. It's avoidable and you made reference to it yourself.

And I'll just not watch the nonsense I watched Saturday night. Which that's what it was. Nonsense.
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