UK Historic Racing/Racers and the Euro

[Peter Mallett]

Picking up on something in the Imola thread, next season may be quite interesting if the pound stays low. Could the HSCC/Masters/MRL etc. receive an influx of European racers simply because their fees will be less?

OTOH what thoughts re Spa 6 hrs and indeed the two "Summer" Classics? I feel that the main players will still attend but those of us with, let's say, lesser budgets may well decide to play at home.

Thoughts?

[zefarelly]

it is significantly cheaper to race, at club level, inEurope so I don't see it changing that much, Everything in the uk is already getting more expensive, so I'd expect to see smaller grids in places.

The way the political landscape is looking at present we'll need complex documentation to leave your own town soon, so make the most of the next year or two!

[chunder]

We will suffer hugely because the fuel price is going to rise dramatically as the pound loses value over the dollar, that will outweigh anything else I imagine.

You all know it's been creeping up more aggressively the last few weeks, and fuel companies never tire of adding the excess as soon as possible and never when they want to decrease prices.

[Peter Mallett]

I'm not entirely certain that the fuel cost is a major issue. I agree it will go back to being relatively expensive but fuel only forms a small part of the cost of a race weekend. If you are paid in Euros, the exchange rate (currently) means entry fees would be something like 20% less than last year/earlier this year. So, if you live in Belgium, The Netherlands or Eastern France then it may make sense to enjoy the delights of Brands Hatch, Silverstone or indeed Snetterton, all of which would be in reasonably easy travelling distance. Thruxton may even be relatively easy considering the road network.

I stand to be corrected but the economics of running a meeting in the UK are unlikely to be impacted by the exchange rate to any great extent seeing as all the costs will be in Sterling. Also the circuits are all owned by UK interests so, again I can't see any exchange rate influences from the owners.

[grantp]

The Sterling. Euro exchange rate is about the same now as it was in late 2008 and early 2009 and at various points for a year or more after that.

Last time there was an obvious reason for extreme turmoil worldwide although the net effect on the Euro seemed to be more about the markets realising that the Eurozone was quite prepared to fillet it's tax payers in order to survive at any cost - good for the market in the shorter term, not so great for the general population.

Very soon now we will have the "fun" of the US election with the backdrop of Putin spotting his strengths and the RoW weakness - especially Europe and its energy needs.

Once the US election disaster has rolled over to the new incumbent getting frozen during their inauguration in DC (and assuming the WW3 has not started by then during the US election), Europe can start to look forward to the elections in Germany and France next year.

Personally I can't see how anything other than instability can be expected for the foreseeable future.

Right now RoW, including Obama, just wants something else to be the focus of distractions. Brexit, of which very few people seem to have any understanding, is a wonderful opportunity to be able to shove any idea to anybody.

Meanwhile we seem to have Boris Johnson leading the "Frightening Clowns" movement. How apt.

[Peter Mallett]

As you say the recent history of 2008 was different to current circumstances. Apart from the newspapers, Brexit in and of itself, is a fairly local issue thus I can't see the politics impacting racers.

[John Elwin]

Fuel prices have been creeping up here too - it's not purely a Brexit thing.

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed fuel is about the dollar and the OPEC issue as much as anything else. But as I said it forms a minimal amount compared to the costs of entry etc.

[chunder]

Depends on your budget I suppose, for some racers the cost of travelling to somewhere like Knockhill or Croft from the South East would be almost as much as the entry fee.

That, to me is a considerable cost. It's always been a little that way obviously, but if it continues to rise to 130/40 a litre, that will impact the lower budget racers.

There are some of them around you know.

[Peter Mallett]

As the initial reason for the thread was whether our European cousins would be more likely to attend UK events due to the favourable exchange rate, I'm struggling to understand the relevance of fuel costs per se.

I also posed the question whether some of us think that Spa 6hrs and other events of that ilk will suffer.

[midgetman]

I used around £100/£120 of diesel to get to my furthest flung UK event this year, with the cost of diesel around 105 per litre. If it had returned to 150 per litre then that is best part of £180 which does make me think twice about going.

It will impinge the "supported" or "team" drivers in as much as Delta will have to increase his charges to get the truck to these far flung places. I know my transport costs are rising steadily and I'm carefully considering how I charge for transport next year.

As always, this single cost may not be the killer but the constant drip of rising prices is steadily eroding the club market. Overalls, helmets, HANS devices, entry fees, transport costs, overnight costs, ferry costs - salami style they will all contribute to drivers thinking "you know, this is all more hassle and cost than the enjoyment I get is worth."

It's being so cheerful that keeps me going.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

But the fuel this year has been cheaper than previous years so all that is happening is the price is returning to previous levels.

[chunder]

That is my point midget, not necessarily the single price of fuel, but it is that combined with the exchange rates, and the ever increasing prices of everything overall.

Fuel has been cheaper agreed and it has certainly meant me doing more meetings as a speccy than before.

So if it has impacted me as a fan, it probably impacts a few guys who race aswell, especially if there are far flung races on the calendar.

Look at something like BSB, they are a British series yet once a year, despite not attending some decent tracks in the UK, they go to Assen in Holland. Great track, proper bike track and heritage, but fans and some teams can't afford it.

For histrionics, Spa, great. It's close, but for lower level guys they would probably rather have two dates at Donington and Brands than go there.

Not everyone is minted and series have to cater for that I am afraid, there are bigger series for those that are.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But the fuel this year has been cheaper than previous years so all that is happening is the price is returning to previous levels.

Yes and I've seen an increase in grids at my end of the market as the price of fuel has dropped. There was a definite drop off when it was 150/litre.

It's not the cost of race fuel, it's the transport. I reckon I used nigh on £300 going to Zandvoort and Genk, if it went up to £450 again I would have to think twice.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Rudernst]

the pound has dropped nearly 30 % from the highest point against the Euro

that certainly has made my racing cheaper
which is nice
and i happended to have upped my game

i will have 4 cars at the Silverstone Finals

i dont mind the change in the petrol cost
because thats a triangle
pound loses againt dollar
uk fuel cost rises
pound drops against euro
Uk billing cost to me drops when converted into euros
in the end no overall change (simplified)

I think that the big decision for Euro Historic racers is:
do I want to travel to UK to take part in the typical short race events ?
and some dont want to do that, actually quite a few
as travel time against track time ratio does not look good
i dont see cost savings making a difference to that principal view

my reason to race in the UK always was the better quality of the racing
grids are larger and more competive
if i raced single seaters in Germany for instance, I would be racing in 20 car combined grids from 15 different classes, not much dicing there then

you acually might get more French attend the Anglo French Brands Hatch meeting due to cheap pound
the wifes can go shopping cheaply in London now

if the weakening of the pound continues, which i expect,
then the question will be:
who will go to Le Mans Classic and Monaco ?
when the 5.000,- Euro entries cost 30 % more converted into pounds
unfortunately the proper bloke enthusiasts will think twice
and the super rich wont mind, but bicker, of course, but go anyway

Rudolf

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But the fuel this year has been cheaper than previous years so all that is happening is the price is returning to previous levels.

You're exactly right Peter, fuel is still cheaper than it's been for around 8 years, the exchange rate against the Euro is still good compared with various times in the past 8 years, I think it was 2011 when we were getting parity and couldn't exchange Sterling in banks in Malmedy. I got 1.13€ to the £ last week which is one of the best rates I've had since 2007.
Back then when we had parity how did that affect European racers coming here? I know it gave the UK engine builders a bonus with overflowing order books as there was an 18 month wait when I wanted a Jag engine built.
As for doing Spa, I only do the support races not the 6 hour, the cost has never been a decider, it's value for enjoyment in my books and if I don't enjoy it then I don't bother but I doubt anyone that is in a position to and wants to do the 6 hour race will let the cost stand in their way.

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed Tim. But Rudernst raises a good point about shorter races in the UK. I'm hoping that our local organisers can benefit from this. Maybe the Snetterton 3hrs can return to its former format with some mainland European entries?

[Rudernst]

Tim, I dont agree with Your interpretation of the exchange rate situation

yes
lowest in the last 10 years was 1.04 euros per pound in 2008
even lower than today
but now we are at 1.10 euros per pound
recent significant high was 1.42 euros per pound in 2015
before that highest was up to 1.5ß per pound in 2007

we are more or less very much near the all time low
and we are very far away from the high levels

and it will keep dropping, at least for a while....

Rudolf

[Peter Mallett]

Being paid in Euros I'm able to understand the situation a little better. I think Tim is referring to the exchange rates in banks/tourist offices etc. These rates are significantly different to the average clearing rate.

But he is probably right when he says he and others would still go to Spa.

I'm hoping that out UK organisers will take this opportunity to ramp up their events.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But he is probably right when he says he and others would still go to Spa.

I'm hoping that out UK organisers will take this opportunity to ramp up their events.

There are some events that IMHO are 'inflation proof'- Spa 6 being one, LMC definitely being another.

We can always hope Euro based organises wishing to attract UK racers will take the exchange rate into account when calculating their fees, and keep increases to a minimum?

Will a Euro organiser look at the increased value of racing in the UK and arrange something here? I doubt it.

And as well as the euro, what about the £ / dollar exchange rate? I've long had the desire to race one of my cars in the USA, and was hoping it could happen later next year. But now I need to re-appraise the costs very carefully.....

What I'm sure will happen is that Historic race cars for sale in the UK are more likely to end up leaving our shores now!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

We can always hope Euro based organises wishing to attract UK racers will take the exchange rate into account when calculating their fees, and keep increases to a minimum?

Will a Euro organiser look at the increased value of racing in the UK and arrange something here? I doubt it.

You mentioned Peter Auto as looking for more VFM venues.

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

What I'm sure will happen is that Historic race cars for sale in the UK are more likely to end up leaving our shores now!

Yes that's the other side of the coin. Would be interesting to see if Simon D has any thoughts on this considering his line of work these days.

[Mike Bell]

Value for money, as in circuits that are not trying to rip off their customers, not necessarily because of an attractive exchange rate! I can't see PA changing their business model anytime soon, seeing they have a large and loyal mainland following, and they have already announced the 2017 calendar....

Flavien and Vanessa Marcais, aka GTSCC, also France based, have always had a stronger (bigger percentage of grids) UK following. In 2014 (I think) they changed their event programme to use all UK circuits plus one across the channel because of the increasing costs of travel to the mainland at that time. This season they've have 2 Euro meetings as it was an anniversary year, so will be interesting to see if next season reverts to one, or indeed none... Their Dijon and Portimao GTSCC races this year have attracted just over 30 entrants for each.

[john ruston]

So that eastern Peter Auto round is Hungry at end of September,

Week after Spa!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by john ruston

So that eastern Peter Auto round is Hungary at end of September,

Week after Spa!

Spa could be considered as on the way, John! Just needs careful planning and a bit of juggling.....

Anyway, never mind our hobby- there's far more serious repercussions from the pound's fall. Today we nearly lost Marmite!

[Peter Mallett]

Never was going to happen. Where's their market. Certainly isn't Europe.