Badge disease

[DAVID PATERSON]

V8 Supercar racing and lately, this forum, appeal to people who seem to steadfastly believe that all Holdens and Holden drivers are good and all Fords and Ford drivers are bad or vice versa of course.

What puzzles me is how on earth someone could come to such a simplistic, narrow minded conclusion? What thought processes, if any and what teaching or experience would lead a person to hold these beliefs?

[wallyone]

Ever been to a football game?

[DAVID PATERSON]

I went to a Broncos home game once, left at half time.

[wallyone]

Losing were they?

Seriously though.

Without too much soap boxing....Tribal sports such as Footy and Car racing will always attract a 'fanatical' element.

"My grandad went for team xyz, and so did my dad and therefore so do I.

Same with car racing. We can look into the garage and see the link with the sport that we love. We can be a small part of it.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent man. I'm happily married, with two kids, nice house, drive a HSV and have a well-paid job. But I'm absolutely a one eyed Holden fan. There's probably thousands like me and similar numbers in the blue corner.

It's all about history, tradition, emotion, engrained beliefs, family and friends and plain old passion and pride.

Call it simplistic and narrow minded if you must.

But there is alot of us around.

And be careful, because one of them could be flying the plane or cooking the food or driving the next taxi that you get into.....

[Crash Test]

Hrmmm, I'm with Patto.

I drive a Ford, but I'd be buggered if Murph's 2:06 wasn't awesome, Brock isn't a God or sorts, and Torana's aren't a horn piece of kit....

[aj_308]

and we should be worried because we dont like the same make of car?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Aj, you've missed my point, I'm not saying we should all like the same brand, I just don't understand the "all these are good and all those are bad" mentality. Surely, any intelligent person can see that a good car is a good car, regardless of the badge and Holden and Ford have both made plenty of cars that are praiseworthy and plenty that aren't worth the petrol in their tank.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Wally, it's a funny story, the time I went to a football game. A mate who grew up in Cronulla and now lives in Brisbane wanted to go and see the Sharks vs the Broncos. I'd never been before and had nothing else to do so decided to go along for the experience. Anyway, at half time we went for pies and drinks and bumped into two other mates, one of whom was Danny Osborne.

We were chatting and Danny mentioned that his new race car was almost finished and his workshop was only two blocks away. We all looked at each other and agreed that football was boring, cars are much better and out the gate we went. When we got to the shop, a few of the team were working on the car and we were all there till after 1am, sitting round talking cars. Much better than football.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Wally, aside from NASCAR, the Tifosi and V8 Supercars, i don't think motor sport is tribal.

[Bedford]

Originally posted by Crash Test
and Torana's aren't a horn piece of kit....

What in god's name is 'a horn piece of kit....' ?

[wallyone]

I agree.

I'm a much bigger car-racing fan than footy.

There are plenty of intelligent, successful, rational human beings out there that are one-eyed Holden or Ford supporters. There's lots of hillbillies too, I'm not that stupid....

I accept that Ford make some great cars. And I certainly accept that Holden have made some dogs.

That's not the point, in my opinion.

It's much deeper than that.

It's a family activity for me, a tradition. Car racing and supporting Holdens is in my family.

We have such little history and tradition in this country.

My support of Holden runs very deep.

I followed them in the bad times and drove their cars when they weren't the best things around (many would argue that they still aren't).

I could drive a BMW or Audi or Merc or even a Porsche if I chose to. But I don't, I drive a HSV and I'm proud of it.

Just like I'm proud to sit up with my kids and watch Skaifey go around each weekend. Sometimes it's good (and of late) sometimes it's not so good.

But it's part of my life and part of the history and tradition in my family.

When my eldest son was 5, he cried when Brock retired, so did I. You keep those memories for life.

I can't justify my passion beyond that.

Call me unintelligent and narrow minded if you choose.

But I wouldn't change what I do or how I do it for the world.

Fords SUCK ! ! !

Holdens RULE.

It's as simple as that for little old me....

[GROUPA]

For me it is VW's I came home from the hospital in a bettle first car was a VW and have had a few over the years....current have 1998 Passat Turbo, 2000 Golf Rally and 2004 R32

I have only ever had a Ford or Holden as a work car and hated both of them

I have always prefered European cars though born here...I dont see the fuss in the taxi interior (and dynamics to some point) Commodores and Falcons including HSV & Tickford etc...thats why I like Procar.

But all in all I appreciate a good car when I see one eg, XU1, current & previous Monaro, GT XY, XR6 Turbo, Walkinshaw, thats about it

My defination of God in touring cars Hans Stuck Jnr

[DarthFalcon]

Originally posted by wallyone
Fords SUCK ! ! !

Holdens RULE.

I love it! And I agree - although I'd turn the phrase around!

David, you sound as if you think being an irrational fan is something to be frowned on. Being a sports fan can be an irrational pastime. Of course, it doesn't make much sense - it's not supposed to - so I wouldn't try arguing about it - it's tribal. But that's the fun thing about it. I grew up 'knowing' Brock was the enemy and Johnson was the good-guy.

If you want to be rational, and try and make sense of it, then maybe chess is better for you!

[pplater]

Having only attended V8 races for years, the 2002 B24 told me that motorsport fans could be intellegent, discerning and capable of intelligent conversations.

Have I been to PROCAR races since? YES
Have I been to V8s since? NO

read into that what you will.

[GTRMagic]

Each to his own in the end.

I like Ferraris, and will go out of my way to make the time to watch them race in PROCAR events, but not to the exclusion of all other motorsport.

That a Ferrari isnt ever going to end up in my garage (presuming I had a garage ) doesnt stop me supporting them....

Meantime V8Supercar puts on a good show, the cars contain a lot of engineering technology, blood, sweat and tears, and are entertaining to watch on the track, as well as commercially.

All depends what floats your boat, but seeing a Holden win one weekend, and a Ford the next does not inspire me to go out and select either brand for my own road car.... never has, and probably never will....

[racer69]

As a 5 year old nothing made me happier than seeing Dick Johnson dominate 1988 in the Ford Sierra, and at the same time i was a big Allan Grice fan, and was very happy to see him and Holden win at Bathurst in 1990.

I don't care what cars are in it, nor who the drivers are, if it's a good race (and non-contrived) i'll watch and applaud

[Bigguy]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Aj, you've missed my point, I'm not saying we should all like the same brand, I just don't understand the "all these are good and all those are bad" mentality. Surely, any intelligent person can see that a good car is a good car, regardless of the badge and Holden and Ford have both made plenty of cars that are praiseworthy and plenty that aren't worth the petrol in their tank.

I was at the Swans AFL match on Sunday (first footy game I have been to for 5+ years), and despite most of the crowd being dressed head to foot in red, I was surprised to hear how loud the cheers were when ANY player did something really well. I even looked around to see if there were a lot of Hawthorn fans nearby, but nothing was obvious.

I suspect that many in the crowd were there to see good sport, even if they had their favourite team.

Unfortunately, i tend to think that this red vs blue thing has gotten totally out of hand, and the fanatics would NEVER acknowledge a great drive if the driver was behind the wrong badge. We see this in this forum all the time, when some people show no appreciation of the "wrong" driver doing something exceptional. Murph's blinder at the last Bathurst 1000 is a perfect example.

Rather sad really....

[ff s conscience]

What intrigues me is the level of support given to mainstream manufacturers of school run and shopping cars.

They're great at what they do, but where does the passion come from? Ford and Holden/GM have rarely if ever, built a "pure" race car with their own Badging, they have always fed off the average man in the street and his daily driver,

Alfa Romeo should be the worlds most loved car manufacturer among racing fans....so why aren't they?

[Crash Test]

GTR- do you still drive a Mitsubishi?

[Big Voice]

My wife drive a Commodore,I recently worked for VW,I love the new BA shape in the Ford,And have owned all sorts of other ****.
If it looks good,sound great it will always win with me ....what ever it is.
At least I'm not a fence sitter like Falcadore!

[Crash Test]

You mean your wife crash tests a commodore.

What charter boat??

[Boss330]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
V8 Supercar racing and lately, this forum, appeal to people who seem to steadfastly believe that all Holdens and Holden drivers are good and all Fords and Ford drivers are bad or vice versa of course.

What puzzles me is how on earth someone could come to such a simplistic, narrow minded conclusion? What thought processes, if any and what teaching or experience would lead a person to hold these beliefs?

Its very simple my friend, since I lent over the armco at Warwick Farm as an 8 year old & saw the Coke mustang of Allan Moffats for the first time I was hooked & have owned nothing but fords & followed the fortunes of nothing but ford for 30 odd years. Holden is the "enemy" & always will be. Pure & simple!!!!!!!!!1

[Big Voice]

Hi there Crashy or should we call you Mr Concrete Kerb..
At least mine was an accident not a lack of talent...
Signed Mrs Voice..(The Little Woman behind The Big Man)

Nb.. she made me type this while she was on the phone
Sorry Crashy

[Crash Test]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm still putting that one down to a series of confusing calls from the navigator...

"Oh ****, cut it to the right slow down slow down cut it to the right you'll have an accident"
"What the **** are you on about?"
...smacko
"oh ****** ***** ******* **** bwhahah"


Going back on topic and back a page. I'm a ford boy, but if I had a Torana, or say Patto's Torana, I'd be a pretty happy camper

[wallyone]

Originally posted by ff s conscience
What intrigues me is the level of support given to mainstream manufacturers of school run and shopping cars.

They're great at what they do, but where does the passion come from? Ford and Holden/GM have rarely if ever, built a "pure" race car with their own Badging, they have always fed off the average man in the street and his daily driver,

Alfa Romeo should be the worlds most loved car manufacturer among racing fans....so why aren't they?

Depends on your definition of racecar I guess.

If you're talking internationally, I would argue that cars like the Ford GT40 (a free plug for the enemy) was every bit a 'pure' racecar. It beat the so-called 'pure' racecars of the time from the European elite, and it did it with a good old yankee V8, hands down.

If you limit your comments to Australia, then obviously a small market such as ours (relative to Europe, North America and Japan) simply doesn't allow local manufactures the economies of scale required to produce such niche vehicles.

They have to be derivatives of the volume products. And appeal across a wide range of markets to insure enough volume.

Monaro as an example and the new Territory in Ford's case.

And I'd also ask what you define as a 'pure' racecar?

Do you mean roads cars that are raced? Or road versions of racecars (Porsche GT3 as an example).

Or just pure racing cars, with no road car links what so ever? Like F1?

And if it were simply the most loved brand when it comes to race fans, I’d argue strongly (with many surveys and statistics to back me up) that Ferrari is and has been for a very long time the most popular brand among racing fans around the world.

And as for local cars only being for school runs and trips to the shop.

I’ll back my VYII Clubby in a straight line and at the track against any Alfa you can walk into a local showroom and purchase.