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Old 22 Aug 2012, 01:22 (Ref:3122781)   #276
Icarus_nz
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Originally Posted by smokin'joe View Post
unless they start rebuilding the club from the grassroots up. but that would require a massive cleanout........ not unlike what MSNZ requires.
Don't tease us with 2 sentences Joe. Details please.

My understanding is that the situation regarding Levels is difficult and has been for quite a few years now what with restrictions around noise (which limits income) constraints on space etc

I've said it before, Levels is a great little circuit and has passionate spectators but is caught in a spiral of circumstances which mean they are damned it they do and damned if they don't

What is your 'plan' for a way forward?
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 03:19 (Ref:3122811)   #277
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Don't tease us with 2 sentences Joe. Details please.
OK. i'm gonna get crucified for this, but do really care ??? after 20 years of membership, and assistance, i can't see me going back there unless wholesale changes are made....... they may have a track, but the club died when Bill Brown stepped down as president.

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My understanding is that the situation regarding Levels is difficult and has been for quite a few years now what with restrictions around noise (which limits income) constraints on space etc
the noise constraints arn't a new thing, but they are an issue. utilise the track more productively when you do get to use it. when you can't, make use of the 1000km-ish of potential hillclimb and rally stages to make income.

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I've said it before, Levels is a great little circuit and has passionate spectators but is caught in a spiral of circumstances which mean they are damned it they do and damned if they don't
read as caught in a downward spiral of naiviety and stupidity ??? they shafted the gravel bashers by greedy descions regarding the running of the rally, but give them a token event each year ( which more often than not gets rained or snowed of as they refuse to shift a 'traditional' date)

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What is your 'plan' for a way forward?
rebuild from the bottom up, and feed the lower echelon of the club. myself and a fellow poster on these threads had a great wee gig going running the clubsport side, making sure the entry level competitors had varied events to suit their appetite. it wasn't unsusal for us to have in excess of 70 entries (mainly off the street) at entry level auto-x/ sprints, now they would be numbering 20-25 at the same event. it isn't the recession that killing numbers, it's the charging higher entry fees for less seat time.
done properly entry fees could be reduced purely by getting the spark ignited and getting more cars on events.
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 03:32 (Ref:3122813)   #278
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I wonder what they will chat about this time?

http://www.speedcafe.co.nz/2012/08/2...ure-of-nz-v8s/
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 03:59 (Ref:3122817)   #279
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[QUOTE=smokin'joe;3122811]OK. i'm gonna get crucified for this, but do really care ??? after 20 years of membership, and assistance, i can't see me going back there unless wholesale changes are made....... they may have a track, but the club died when Bill Brown stepped down as president.


That is the Bill Brown who was director of TMC and then MPL till just weeks ago?

What you say is simply not credible as if he had done his job representing his club and other shareholders of TMC/MPL the complete mess created by the 'three' would not and could not have happened. With this background I fail to believe he could have been an effective president of the SCCC.

The whole track noise issue was completely mishandled. Was he In control then?
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 04:22 (Ref:3122818)   #280
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http://www.speedcafe.co.nz/2012/08/2...ure-of-nz-v8s/ - from that we get:

“There are 15 of the old cars and three of the new cars ready to go.”

Correct, but how many stuck their hand up to actually take part in the series?
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 05:04 (Ref:3122822)   #281
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http://www.speedcafe.co.nz/2012/08/2...ure-of-nz-v8s/ - from that we get:

“There are 15 of the old cars and three of the new cars ready to go.”

Correct, but how many stuck their hand up to actually take part in the series?
Last Photo we saw of the Toyota didnt look like was hitting any race track in the near future and Inky has turned his into a Sports Sedan by all accounts
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 05:41 (Ref:3122829)   #282
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Where have you heard that about Inkys car? Are you reffering to his entry in the south island enduros?
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 05:43 (Ref:3122830)   #283
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With regards to trucks at Levels we are fortunate in that the circuit is built on an old river bed plain and as such has a very good foundation and the weight of the trucks do not have any effect on the circuit, the seal is just one of it's time for replacement, quite a bit of it is the origonal from 1967 and this has just become a tad tired and worn out. The flood of 1986 did not help matters either as large sections of the seal "floated" then settled back down in place when the water subsided but some of the finings were washed out and this too has been a cause of some of the places where water gathers after heavy rain.

The noise issue was new territory for everyone including the District Council. What happened there was that over the years we had a number of changes of councils as they amalgamated, the initial consent was from the Levels Council and it was for a car racing circuit, subsequently Levels council become part of Geraldine District council which then became the Strathallen District Council which in turn became the Timaru District Council. Prior to becoming the TDC sub divisions were limited to a minimum size or 10 acres and had to be an economic unit. Once it became TDC then town rules applied and before you knew it the area was surrounded with 1 acre blocks and three houses became 84 all most overnight. The TDC looked at all the various consents the club had for all the developments that had taken place over the years under various councils and asked that the club make an application under the new Resource Management Act to have all the consents reapproved and all listed together as some of the things the circuit was being used for was not in accordance with the initial consent, eg car racing and we also had things like motor cycles using the circuit. So the reapplication was made and all hell broke loose from small group of new residents that had brought cheap and thought that if we were out then they would increase the value of their property (Sounds like Western Springs eh)

SCCC were left on a limb by the sport as other circuits thought that it was just a local problem, well we have all learnt that we should have had a united front and thrown all our resources at it rather than leave SCCC to stand alone. The end result, aside from a reduction in activity, was that the paddock that had taken us about 25 years to get our hands on over along the side of the back straight had to be sold to pay the legal expenses and with that went the plan to relocate the pits and race control on the straight where it had initially been planned for back in 1967 when the first 1.6km circuit was constructed.

Obviously I have my opinions on what, where and how we may have been able to do things better but the club executive of the time did what they thought best and followed all the professional advice they received. For sure the fact that the leading lights amongst the District Councillers were from the same social set as the chief objectors group did not assist the cause either.

It is all history now, you learn from it and move forwards and I for one am looking forward to the 50 year celebrations of the circuit in a few years time

As for the rally, well Joe there will be one next year and I look forward to receiving your entry.
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 05:54 (Ref:3122831)   #284
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With regards to trucks at Levels we are fortunate in that the circuit is built on an old river bed plain and as such has a very good foundation and the weight of the trucks do not have any effect on the circuit, the seal is just one of it's time for replacement, quite a bit of it is the origonal from 1967 and this has just become a tad tired and worn out. The flood of 1986 did not help matters either as large sections of the seal "floated" then settled back down in place when the water subsided but some of the finings were washed out and this too has been a cause of some of the places where water gathers after heavy rain.

The noise issue was new territory for everyone including the District Council. What happened there was that over the years we had a number of changes of councils as they amalgamated, the initial consent was from the Levels Council and it was for a car racing circuit, subsequently Levels council become part of Geraldine District council which then became the Strathallen District Council which in turn became the Timaru District Council. Prior to becoming the TDC sub divisions were limited to a minimum size or 10 acres and had to be an economic unit. Once it became TDC then town rules applied and before you knew it the area was surrounded with 1 acre blocks and three houses became 84 all most overnight. The TDC looked at all the various consents the club had for all the developments that had taken place over the years under various councils and asked that the club make an application under the new Resource Management Act to have all the consents reapproved and all listed together as some of the things the circuit was being used for was not in accordance with the initial consent, eg car racing and we also had things like motor cycles using the circuit. So the reapplication was made and all hell broke loose from small group of new residents that had brought cheap and thought that if we were out then they would increase the value of their property (Sounds like Western Springs eh)

SCCC were left on a limb by the sport as other circuits thought that it was just a local problem, well we have all learnt that we should have had a united front and thrown all our resources at it rather than leave SCCC to stand alone. The end result, aside from a reduction in activity, was that the paddock that had taken us about 25 years to get our hands on over along the side of the back straight had to be sold to pay the legal expenses and with that went the plan to relocate the pits and race control on the straight where it had initially been planned for back in 1967 when the first 1.6km circuit was constructed.

Obviously I have my opinions on what, where and how we may have been able to do things better but the club executive of the time did what they thought best and followed all the professional advice they received. For sure the fact that the leading lights amongst the District Councillers were from the same social set as the chief objectors group did not assist the cause either.

It is all history now, you learn from it and move forwards and I for one am looking forward to the 50 year celebrations of the circuit in a few years time

As for the rally, well Joe there will be one next year and I look forward to receiving your entry.
That's very interesting, and yes quite a lot like Western Springs.

Thanks for that!
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 06:31 (Ref:3122841)   #285
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OK. i'm gonna get crucified for this, but do really care ??? after 20 years of membership, and assistance, i can't see me going back there unless wholesale changes are made....... they may have a track, but the club died when Bill Brown stepped down as president.

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That is the Bill Brown who was director of TMC and then MPL till just weeks ago?
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What you say is simply not credible as if he had done his job representing his club and other shareholders of TMC/MPL the complete mess created by the 'three' would not and could not have happened. With this background I fail to believe he could have been an effective president of the SCCC.
Bill had the sporting and social sides of the club in check, he was the last president to appreciate that a unified club is a productive club. this was before the 'elitism' that meant 'club cars' that were capable on every surface had to become dedicated track cars as they culled off grass auto-x and gravel sprints.


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The whole track noise issue was completely mishandled. Was he In control then?
if my memory serves me right, it was before his time ?? Southern one will know.




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As for the rally, well Joe there will be one next year and I look forward to receiving your entry.
good luck with that one Carl. you and any crew you get, will do all the hard yards, set the entry and those money-hungry clowns will increase the entry fee to the point that no-one will enter.
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 06:34 (Ref:3122844)   #286
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Interesting, then, that the Super Trucks will not only be at Levels this year but also Taupo and Ruapuna. I wonder why those tracks have decided the potential risk to their infrastructure from truck crashes is worth taking...
Ummm... Actually the Super Trucks have already raced at all those 3 circuits during their past season...
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 06:50 (Ref:3122855)   #287
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Ummm... Actually the Super Trucks have already raced at all those 3 circuits during their past season...
Well back-date my comments by a year then...
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 07:51 (Ref:3122867)   #288
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in Levels case, it will be their only income, unless they start rebuilding the club from the grassroots up. but that would require a massive cleanout........ not unlike what MSNZ requires.
SSCC is the same . The clubsport/grassroots was dead 2-3 years ago its getting better now.. but defently a few generations of potential lost.
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 07:53 (Ref:3122869)   #289
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[QUOTE=smokin'joe;3122841


good luck with that one Carl. you and any crew you get, will do all the hard yards, set the entry and those money-hungry clowns will increase the entry fee to the point that no-one will enter.[/QUOTE]


You know the rules Joe baby, put up or shut up. It's not about being money hungry, it is called pay your way.
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Old 22 Aug 2012, 08:20 (Ref:3122872)   #290
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You know the rules Joe baby, put up or shut up.
best you call in for an ale, and i'll let you know many more reasons a clean-out is needed, and why i won't be helping you on this rally.if it goes ahed.

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It's not about being money hungry, it is called pay your way.
i admire your humour, but if the off-track events don't turn a huge profit, they don't happen.
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Old 3 Sep 2012, 03:14 (Ref:3129556)   #291
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A little bird was telling me MPL turned to Custard last week, anybody have anymore on that one
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Old 3 Sep 2012, 04:22 (Ref:3129582)   #292
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A little bird was telling me MPL turned to Custard last week, anybody have anymore on that one
I heard this on Saturday that MPL has been wound up as well, John Foulke resigned and Brian Laurence has gone. There is obviously plenty of action going on in Wellington. Judging by the TV broadcast yesterday, MSNZ staying away from race meetings is very productive and V8ST showing that the can do a not bad job as well in the middle of winter judging from what I saw and heard re the crowd numbers. Also good rumblings from the Rally NZ crew at Gisborne with positive changes to Rallying for next year.
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Old 3 Sep 2012, 08:47 (Ref:3129680)   #293
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I heard this on Saturday that MPL has been wound up as well, John Foulke resigned and Brian Laurence has gone. There is obviously plenty of action going on in Wellington. Judging by the TV broadcast yesterday, MSNZ staying away from race meetings is very productive and V8ST showing that the can do a not bad job as well in the middle of winter judging from what I saw and heard re the crowd numbers. Also good rumblings from the Rally NZ crew at Gisborne with positive changes to Rallying for next year.
Doesn't look like it has happened yet, not officially anyway. MPL still registered with the Companies Office as of today, having been incorporated on 18 Sept 1992 and previously known, as we all know as TMC and before that MRNZ.

Funny that it's the same company but with 2 new names and pretty much the same old crew - what is known as a smokescreen I believe.

Will be interesting to check back next week and see if it still exists...
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:43 (Ref:3130967)   #294
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Doesn't look like it has happened yet, not officially anyway. MPL still registered with the Companies Office as of today, having been incorporated on 18 Sept 1992 and previously known, as we all know as TMC and before that MRNZ.

Funny that it's the same company but with 2 new names and pretty much the same old crew - what is known as a smokescreen I believe.

Will be interesting to check back next week and see if it still exists...
Yes did see KC's quote on another thread bragging that its still operational.
Time will tell all.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:53 (Ref:3130971)   #295
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Doesn't look like it has happened yet, not officially anyway. MPL still registered with the Companies Office as of today, having been incorporated on 18 Sept 1992 and previously known, as we all know as TMC and before that MRNZ.

Funny that it's the same company but with 2 new names and pretty much the same old crew - what is known as a smokescreen I believe.

Will be interesting to check back next week and see if it still exists...
It doesn't happen that quick. I wouldn't imagine that money would be wasted in liquidating it...unless Mapp & Assoc do a freebie liquidation
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:56 (Ref:3130972)   #296
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Yes did see KC's quote on another thread bragging that its still operational.
Time will tell all.
It can take a very long time for the company to be struck off or deregistered, up to a few months sometimes by the time all the paperwork filters though to the Companies Office. If all the activity happened on the weekend, then I doubt we'd see much sign of it until October probably.

Roger H is always a good source of info on this source of thing... heard anything at all Roger?
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:24 (Ref:3130980)   #297
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It can take a very long time for the company to be struck off or deregistered, up to a few months sometimes by the time all the paperwork filters though to the Companies Office. If all the activity happened on the weekend, then I doubt we'd see much sign of it until October probably.

Roger H is always a good source of info on this source of thing... heard anything at all Roger?
I have heard a number of similar rumours - but they are only rumours and there are plenty going around.

I heard that an independent review was being done on MPL's financial position and that if it came out that MPL was insolvent then John Fowke had indicated he would resign. However, this would not be surprising as it would be untenable for directors to continue holding positions in an insolvent company.
MSNZ has advanced (loaned?) relatively significant funds to MPL (in addition to the annual "administration assistance") and this must be at some risk if MPL's position is such that a review is being undertaken as to it's financial stability.

I'm not necessarily suggesting MPL is insolvent but I don't think you need to be a genius to work out that MPL must be suffering as it's traditional operational model of raising sponsorship monies and running a Tier One season has been dealt some pretty hard blows in recent times.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:31 (Ref:3130984)   #298
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It doesn't happen that quick. I wouldn't imagine that money would be wasted in liquidating it...unless Mapp & Assoc do a freebie liquidation
Hmmm, yeah I think a lot of small companies don't go to the trouble of actually liquidating either, just don't file a return and wait for it to be struck off.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 03:49 (Ref:3130993)   #299
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I have heard a number of similar rumours - but they are only rumours and there are plenty going around.

I heard that an independent review was being done on MPL's financial position and that if it came out that MPL was insolvent then John Fowke had indicated he would resign. However, this would not be surprising as it would be untenable for directors to continue holding positions in an insolvent company.
MSNZ has advanced (loaned?) relatively significant funds to MPL (in addition to the annual "administration assistance") and this must be at some risk if MPL's position is such that a review is being undertaken as to it's financial stability.

I'm not necessarily suggesting MPL is insolvent but I don't think you need to be a genius to work out that MPL must be suffering as it's traditional operational model of raising sponsorship monies and running a Tier One season has been dealt some pretty hard blows in recent times.
My understanding is that John Fowke has resigned
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 06:07 (Ref:3131030)   #300
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Under s159 of the Companies Act a company has 20 working days (3 weeks) to advise the Companies Office of any director's resignation.

If John Fowke has resigned, it may not appear on the company records for a while.

The same applies with VEEGA as I understand that Brian Budd is meant to have resigned as a director (possibly as it would be inappropriate for the GM of MSNZ to be a director of the entity litigating in respect of the ST when MSNZ are having "deep and meaningful" discussions with ST). However, Mr Budd is still listed as a VEEGA director on the company records.
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