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Old 28 Sep 2017, 22:07 (Ref:3770381)   #1531
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To Clarify

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this is from supplement 2 of Appendix O which can be found

FIA Website Appendix O
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3770393)   #1532
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And then they muddle it up by giving exceptions.

Mid Ohio and Laguna Seca can hold six-hour races.

Portland and Lime Rock can hold 2hr, 45min races.

Brands Hatch Indy was allowed to host CART/ChampCar.

Monaco can hold an F1 Grand Prix.

(I'm not sure how FIA GT was able to get by with Adria, and I still REALLY don't know how Goldenport Beijing was cleared for FIA GT1.)
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Old 28 Sep 2017, 22:41 (Ref:3770398)   #1533
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N4, though I like Brands Hatch Indy very much, when you then look at the GP Loop, it's a bit like comparing the Short Course at Watkins Glen to the GP Circuit there.

It's quite busy, even with just 18 Champ Cars out there (Vasser was out practically from the start), and those cars weren't as quick as any F1 cars that ran then or since. The higher speed of F1 would effectively make things even busier, especially when it comes to the probability of a coming together at that rather abrupt pit-out. Having the extra space of the 2.623-mile GP Circuit over the 1.226-mile Indy Circuit can be useful for a variety of reasons.

Also, it just doesn't feel like the Indy Circuit offers a place for the "bigger" cars to be able to "stretch their legs" properly. Beyond that, utilizing the GP Loop helps provide for some better overtaking opportunities with the full track layout; the taller gearing needed for the longer course limits the physical spreading between the cars coming off the slow(er) corners, and thus further reduces the need for desperate dive-bombs in order to make moves stick.

And while I'd kind of like to see F1 at Brands again, I think a circuit like Donington might well be a better fit, whereas the WEC could put on a heck of a race at Brands GP. (As much as anything, I'm just tired of EVERYTHING running at Silverstone, and as that's going on, I get to see NONE of the other excellent circuits in the UK. It's bloody frustrating sometimes; I'm just damn glad that the de facto FIA GT runs Brands Hatch GP and WSBK runs Donington Park GP.)

Now back to your newly-scheduled Danish GP?
Hi Purist,
I agree entirely about the pits at Brands. In my humble they are in entirely the wrong place. If I was God, I would smite them and build a wonderful modern complex 200 yards south east on the other side of the Cooper straight, with pit in after Druids and exit at Surtees. That way you could have a decent pit lane and fans could then see the whole track from any vantage point.
Personally, I love short tracks, the NASCAR night race on the 1/2 mile banked oval at Bristol, Tennessee is absolutely the highlight of my year. 40 800 hp stock cars laying down 15 second laps is my idea of heaven. The last car is already half a lap down when the flag drops. I have fallen asleep in 90% of the F1 GP's this year.
I agree entirely about Silverstone. I have met several people who have been put off motor racing for life because their only experience of it is an outrageously expensive seat at the British GP. Our other tracks cannot meet F1's prima donna pit and paddock standards, and would go broke if they tried.
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 00:37 (Ref:3770411)   #1534
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Brands Hatch Indy Circuit is the best track in the world, and it is 1.2 miles long. A GP there would be the best GP in the world.
Watch the Champ cars there if you don't believe me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgk02EYCh0
I used to go to Brands loads, from the mid '70s to the late '80s, including the very last F1 GP ever held there. I went to the Champ Car race as I hadn't been to Brands for years and it was CART, in the UK. Although it was great to see those Reynards and mostly Lolas charge around, I didn't think the Indy Circuit was long enough, for the event and they should have used the full circuit. The full circuit was ideally suited for Group C, saw some excellent races.

As much as I would like to see F1 return, I don't see it happening. From what I've heard from people who go now and looking at the track photos, the facilities are not up to spec and it would involve a lot of time and a lot of money.
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 01:37 (Ref:3770415)   #1535
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I used to go to Brands loads, from the mid '70s to the late '80s, including the very last F1 GP ever held there. I went to the Champ Car race as I hadn't been to Brands for years and it was CART, in the UK. Although it was great to see those Reynards and mostly Lolas charge around, I didn't think the Indy Circuit was long enough, for the event and they should have used the full circuit. The full circuit was ideally suited for Group C, saw some excellent races.

As much as I would like to see F1 return, I don't see it happening. From what I've heard from people who go now and looking at the track photos, the facilities are not up to spec and it would involve a lot of time and a lot of money.
I watched a Mini and a Mustang go at it at Brands once. They crossed the line side by side every lap, then the Mini would sail past into Paddock and it would all begin again. It was just magical, thanks to a brilliant track design.

You would have to spend millions to have a GP there, and as host tracks are losing money with F1's exorbitant fee's it would never make sense. Brands is a bit of a mish mash of developments that don't really fit together that well. It needs a grandstand like a NASCAR oval. They are painted into a corner having the pits where they are, you can barely get an artic in there.

I just like being able to sit in one place and see the whole track, rather than a glimpse every few minutes like at Silverstone. I used to be nuts about F1, but now I find it so dull I don't really care that it will never come back to Brands Hatch. Next weekend is the Bathurst 1000 and that is a proper race on a proper track that can really make me jump up and down in excitement.
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 07:32 (Ref:3770459)   #1536
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N4, unfortunately, your proposal just doesn't work. The easiest way to see it is just to look at the circuit and observe the distance between the apexes of Clark and Paddock Hill, and then compare that to the distance between the apex of Graham Hill and the middle of Surtees. The least pressing issue with the current pit lane is the pit-in, and that's the only "problem" you solve by putting the pits along Cooper Straight. The pit lane, in order to fit between Graham Hill and Surtees necessarily must be shorter, especially if it is to have a usable pit-out for the Indy Circuit. Also, there isn't space for paddock/garages at te Surtees end of Cooper. Not to mention, you'd have to build this pit complex on a hill as well, just like the current one.

I've been to three IRL races at Kansas Speedway. I can't see well enough for the whole oval experience to really work for me. Also, I just don't find it that pleasant being stuck in one seat out in the sun for the whole afternoon (to say nothing of some family history of skin cancer).

Of the road courses I've been to, my favorite experience has been my trips to Road America. After that, though Watkins Glen and Mid Ohio both have some great viewing points, I probably give the nod in terms of overall experience to Mid Ohio, in significant part due to the greater availability of tree shade in places where you can still pretty clearly view the track.

As a side note, this kind of heads toward another reason I REALLY don't like paved run-offs: heat convection. If it's 80 F (26.7 C), and you have a parking lot on the outside of a corner, even if you might have some shade, that viewing area can become damned miserable once the sun has been out for any length of time, and especially so if you have high humidity to go with it. (This is probably about unheard of in the UK, but across large parts of the US, in summer, the Dew Point can be so bloody high that lows at night only get down to around 80 degrees. There's a reason the South didn't start to really populate until air-conditioning became more commonplace.)
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Old 29 Sep 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3770474)   #1537
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N4, unfortunately, your proposal just doesn't work. The easiest way to see it is just to look at the circuit and observe the distance between the apexes of Clark and Paddock Hill, and then compare that to the distance between the apex of Graham Hill and the middle of Surtees. The least pressing issue with the current pit lane is the pit-in, and that's the only "problem" you solve by putting the pits along Cooper Straight. The pit lane, in order to fit between Graham Hill and Surtees necessarily must be shorter, especially if it is to have a usable pit-out for the Indy Circuit. Also, there isn't space for paddock/garages at te Surtees end of Cooper. Not to mention, you'd have to build this pit complex on a hill as well, just like the current one.

I've been to three IRL races at Kansas Speedway. I can't see well enough for the whole oval experience to really work for me. Also, I just don't find it that pleasant being stuck in one seat out in the sun for the whole afternoon (to say nothing of some family history of skin cancer).

Of the road courses I've been to, my favorite experience has been my trips to Road America. After that, though Watkins Glen and Mid Ohio both have some great viewing points, I probably give the nod in terms of overall experience to Mid Ohio, in significant part due to the greater availability of tree shade in places where you can still pretty clearly view the track.

As a side note, this kind of heads toward another reason I REALLY don't like paved run-offs: heat convection. If it's 80 F (26.7 C), and you have a parking lot on the outside of a corner, even if you might have some shade, that viewing area can become damned miserable once the sun has been out for any length of time, and especially so if you have high humidity to go with it. (This is probably about unheard of in the UK, but across large parts of the US, in summer, the Dew Point can be so bloody high that lows at night only get down to around 80 degrees. There's a reason the South didn't start to really populate until air-conditioning became more commonplace.)
Have a look on Google Maps satellite image of Brands Hatch, put your ruler on the screen and measure it for yourself. The current pits fit absolutely perfectly in the area I describe. If they were L shaped, beginning between Druids and Graham Hill, you could double them in size. Having them there also makes the tiny tunnel redundant. I have even paced it out whilst wandering about.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/....2524683?hl=en

Anyway, it is pure fantasy and a lot of engineering work that is never going to happen. My original point was that a short track can be great. I like the idea of cars not being able open their legs, and all over each other. Not every race of the year, a mix of Spa for one round and Brands Hatch Indy for another is perfect. That is why I think NASCAR is so brilliant, you have to the race 1/2 mile flat track at Martinsville, the 2 mile banking of Michigan, and the rolling hills of Sonoma. Half the tracks F1 goes to are just dull as dishwater to me.

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Old 29 Sep 2017, 10:55 (Ref:3770506)   #1538
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I'd love to see F1 at Brands again for old times' sake, but it just isn't going to happen without ruining the track
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Old 30 Sep 2017, 20:43 (Ref:3770793)   #1539
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As for short tracks, I certainly enjoy Lime Rock, but even I have reached the point where I'm not so concerned about having the Prototypes continuing to go there, and just leaving it for the GTs; now, I definitely DO want to see the P cars back at VIR.

Just as a point of good, informed design, I wouldn't make a pit lane with a hard corner in it like what you suggested for Brands. And like I said, I don't know what it would really solve anyway.

I still maintain that I don't see the point of running a class of car on a track where there's nowhere for it to stretch its legs; it doesn't have to be Monza every time, but you know, even Adelaide had the Brabham Straight. It's like how I don't see the point of a roval if it doesn't use any of the oval's banked turns. Or, how I don't see the point of racing at Paul Ricard if you're going to chicane the Mistral.

Yes, a number of Tilke's tracks are too samey, and a track like Brno or Portimao would be a nice addition.

Actually, I wouldn't be averse to F1 trying a Thai Grand Prix at Buriram. The layout is quick and simple (a refreshing change from all these 20-turn, 3.4-mile courses), and that blind approach to Turn 4, even if F1 can take it flat, is still just excellent. And with MotoGP coming for 2018, it should be getting a bit of a refresh also.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 17:27 (Ref:3771316)   #1540
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I hope F1 does not come back, and no one changes the track.
I would rather watch the NASCAR Euro series stock cars on the Indy circuit any day.
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