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Old 1 Oct 2017, 20:11 (Ref:3771078)   #61
peebee2
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Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
I didn't comment on the last race because I was too disgusted by it having a good race ruined by Seb and Max (really Kimi did nothing wrong, Seb did the Schumacher chop and Max ****ed his pants a little and jerked across straight into Kimi) and gifting effing Hamilton a win.

This time we had a much better race. The main man of the race has to be Vandoorne. This is I think the first time he's properly beaten Alonso fair and square. He outqualified him and had a legit 0.2sec over him in every qualifying session.

In the race Alonso had no problems. It's just he was stuck behind other cars for most of the race and couldn't get past them. Alonso had the better strategy imo pitting at mid race lap 26 with the leaders while Vandoorne came in far too early on lap 13 and had to go 43 laps on 1 set. But he held on, passed the Williams back instantly as Massa tried to keep his more talented (at this stage in their careers) team mate behind him.

Alonso struggled to really pass anyone and his fastest lap was 0.5s slower than Vandorne's when it should have been faster with soft tyres less laps to conserve them. So yeah, when's the last time Alonso got properly beat by a team mate and outperformed? Maybe just Button. Kimi and Massa couldn't outperform him at Ferrari, ever. Actually I think Kimi might have beat him once. Stoffels now done it and finally showing the form we expected.

Lance Stroll was strong, well at least stronger than his team mate. Williams disadvantaged him by giving Massa the undercut, but Stroll did well to get back past and pull away.

Palmer; for once was able to keep up with Hulkenberg. Kept him within 2 seconds even though Hulkenberg undercut him by 4 laps. Hulk then made the extra stop so Palmer would have finished ahead of him. Until he spun a couple of times. Duh Palmer.

Ocon. Hmm, did he run 53 laps on 1 set? Had to pit on lap 2, don't know why. Ran to the end from there and finished 10th but a decent amount behind Perez. Not his best race but damn that's a lot of laps on one tyre set.

Kmag an eventful race, seemed to be in the top 10 but had some rough battles, Alonso pushing him off track. Then Palmer spins and comes out next to him not wanting to lose the position. Still finished ahead of Grosjean but his fastest lap was rather slow.

Wehrlein, 10th fastest lap, not bad. But only finished in front of his team mate. It's a shame Sauber are so slow, it's ended Wehrlein's career really and how the hell is Leclerc supposed to stand out with them?

Hey what about Gasly? Sounds like he had fuel issues as he wasn't saving enough as it's all new to him. I remember looking at him running at the back battling with the Saubers while Sainz was 8th and thinking oh dear, you need to be doing better than that Gasly. Ended up beating the Renaults as well although they both didn't have smooth races. But then Sainz DNF'd anyway. Not the greatest debut (ie. Kmag and Vandoorne's debuts were a bit better) but we'll see him again next week. I think he's better than Kyvat, but not much to be honest. It took him nearly 2 years to win in GP2 and even then very nearly lost the title to his much less experienced team mate with them both in the fastest car. But I do think Gasly should finish Super Formula because the streak he's on he'll likely win it. Don't sacrifice the Super Formula title just for one extra F1 race when you're guaranteed a seat next year anyway since Red Bull have no other juniors to move up. Sainz is moving out and Kyvat is rubbish so they have no choice but to call Gasly up.
Massa got "the call" to allow the $$$$ through and Ocon pitted because he had damage clashing with Massa at T1/T2... that was how $$$$ got through to start with. Ocon was later hit again by Sainz who took the "Rosberg Austria" line
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Old 1 Oct 2017, 20:57 (Ref:3771085)   #62
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'd say the Sainz/Ocon incident was more like the Schuey/Monty incident at the same corner in 2002
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Old 1 Oct 2017, 21:38 (Ref:3771098)   #63
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Why does Hamilton have to be described as 'effing'?
Because the proper word gets censored. Do you really want to see Hamilton win every race and every championship forever? Most fans don't.
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Old 1 Oct 2017, 22:05 (Ref:3771104)   #64
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Because the proper word gets censored. Do you really want to see Hamilton win every race and every championship forever? Most fans don't.
No, I confess not, but it still doesn't justify the offensive descriptor, censored or otherwise. There was no need for the word at all.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 19:21 (Ref:3771340)   #65
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Hamilton is nowhere near the domination of TGF, he's only had three titles so far and two of them have gone down to the wire and he was beaten by Nico last season
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 19:31 (Ref:3771346)   #66
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Hamilton is nowhere near the domination of TGF, he's only had three titles so far and two of them have gone down to the wire and he was beaten by Nico last season
Indeed, Hamilton's had to work a damn sight harder than Schuey ever did in his day.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 10:27 (Ref:3771707)   #67
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Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yeah Schumacher did have the advantage of some weaker team mates throughout his career. Irvine and Barrichello are no comparison to Alonso, Rosberg and Button.

I'm not sold on Bottas though. 2 good races which resulted in wins, but everywhere else and especially lately, Lewis has a big advantage over him.
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Old 4 Oct 2017, 12:22 (Ref:3771734)   #68
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Next season will be crucial for Bottas. He's had flashes of potential WC material this season and now needs to build on that
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 09:35 (Ref:3772002)   #69
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Rosberg faded quite a lot in 2014 and 15 before managing to maintain pace throughout the the season last year.

I think the 2 wins Bottas had he fairly dominated most of the race so the speed is definitely there.

Next year we will see if he can maintain the speed.
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 23:23 (Ref:3773090)   #70
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Rosberg faded quite a lot in 2014 and 15 before managing to maintain pace throughout the the season last year.

I think the 2 wins Bottas had he fairly dominated most of the race so the speed is definitely there.

Next year we will see if he can maintain the speed.
Isn't that a sign of how relentlessly hard drivers have to work to try to match Hamilton?

All of TGF's team-mates were shepherded into being Number 2s, but Hamilton's team mates have always been considered his equal. And I've always got the impression that Hamilton himself prefers it that way.

Rosberg faded twice, and felt compelled to retire after the herculean effort of last season.
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Old 9 Oct 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3773185)   #71
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Rubens was probably the only one who gave it a proper go
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Old 9 Oct 2017, 13:08 (Ref:3773210)   #72
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Schumacher's team mates were number twos by dint of him being much faster. It was rare - Austria 2002 is the obvious example - that the team needed to do anything. And of course at the end of 1999 Schuey himself played the perfect number two to Fast Eddie.
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Old 9 Oct 2017, 14:34 (Ref:3773218)   #73
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Isn't that a sign of how relentlessly hard drivers have to work to try to match Hamilton?

All of TGF's team-mates were shepherded into being Number 2s, but Hamilton's team mates have always been considered his equal. And I've always got the impression that Hamilton himself prefers it that way.

Rosberg faded twice, and felt compelled to retire after the herculean effort of last season.
I wonder if Hamilton's teammates are lulled into a sense of comfort? Hamilton strikes me as the type that doesn't have to work too hard and can just show up and be great. If his teammates take the same route, they will suffer. Everyone else except maybe max will have to work and prepare as hard as possible as they should be anyway.

What made me think of this is the rain delays lately. Bottas has been hanging in the lounge chairs playing video games with Lewis. Other drivers are in the garage talking with the teams, preparing, while hamilton is relaxing. He can, being a talent that can show up and be great. Bottas probably should be doing stuff in ths garage with team, talking, prepping, something. But being lulled into thw Hamilton mindset, he's playing video games too. Maybe that's the difference in his later season performance. Like it has been pointed out, rosberg had to work harder last year. Maybe the previous years seeing his teammate not do a lot of the stuff he did last year, he also went a little slack on them as well to worse results.
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Old 30 Oct 2017, 00:16 (Ref:3777321)   #74
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It's exciting to add a couple new entries into the rising stars roster of 2017. There's a lot of them now isn't there?

Ocon, Stroll, Magnussen, Vandoorne, Gasly, Wehrlein, Hartley.

F1 isn't hanging on to it's old vets lately (except Massa).

Mexico then, obviously the standouts were Ocon and Stroll, great drives from both. Magnussen as well actually. They're all coming into their own now and it's amusing to see Perez having difficulty beating Ocon. He must be hating it.

Vandoorne was decent but not quite on Alonso's pace. Still, when Alonso was team mates with Kimi and Massa, he'd leave them 20-40secs behind. Vandoorne was remaining within 5-10secs of Alonso after they'd ordered him to move aside. So still a decent performance.

Gasly and Hartley doing a good job considering someone must have thrown a bag of bolts into both their engines before being fired

The fact that they're both fighting for positions between McLaren, Haas, Williams, Sauber is a good sign. It would be quite easy for a new driver to come in and be way off the pace, a bit like Vandoorne was early in the year. But both drivers are right on it in a car that has probably had little development this year and is really just a test team for RB, what with them switching to Honda next year which I assume is nothing more than a test to compare it to the main teams' Renault.
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Old 30 Oct 2017, 17:54 (Ref:3777566)   #75
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Ocon certainly seems to have got the better of Checo now. He could go a long way

Stroll has been consistent the last few races and is amazingly now in the top 10 of the championship

Vandoorne is starting to match Fred consistently, showing the talent he always had

Both Gasly and Hartley are impressing. Magnussenís driving has warranted criticism, but his drives in both Suzuka and Mexico City remind us of his talent. Wehrlein has gone a bit quiet lately, but heís still worth a punt for a higher team
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