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Old 15 Sep 2017, 15:56 (Ref:3767124)   #646
Lanti
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Lanti should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzaan View Post
This case shows again how lame the management of the WTCC.

A serious, professional series has some kind of middle-term agreement with the competitors to make sure to avoid this kind of situations (what Citroen and Lada did or the VW teams did in WEC).

Also a serious and professional series share back the majority of their income (money from broadcasting, advertisment, track license money) to the competitors.
Without wanting to be the advocate of the current WTCC managament: this is completely not true.

First: it is up to a manufacturer to decided the length of their participation. I Volvo decides to commit for 2 years you cannot force a 4 years contract on them. These days promoters are happy if a manufacturer want to run a full-works program in their championship, so don't think they can argue with them a lot about the length...

Second: look at Porsche. They had a contract for 2018 but still they decided to stop a year earlier. If a manufacturer want to go, it will go, even is there is a contract.

It is an even greater bullshit to think that WTCC does not give back a lot of their money to the series. They do!

One day EEL is criticized for paying to teams or giving them financial dispensations to keep them, than on the other day for not doing that. I also see a lot of mistakes from the current management but this is completely not fair.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 16:02 (Ref:3767126)   #647
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Originally Posted by Londoner View Post
TC1 has been a total unmitigated disaster for the WTCC. Firstly it priced a load of privateers out of the series, and then Citroen screws over Honda and Lada by forcing them to build new cars a season earlier than planned. I get that S2000 was getting a bit long in the tooth, but to go for an even more expensive and aero-dependent spec of car seemed daft back then and looks even worse now.

Incidentally, can I just add that homologation is a stupid, stupid idea. If someone wants to build a car to the set of rules, they should be allowed to, ala BTCC.
Yes, in hindsight. But I don't remember many people warning WTCC not to introduce TC1 in 2014.

BTW without TC1 WTCC would be dead by now. No manufacturer was interested in S2000 anymore, they could remain a world championship in 2012 because BMW and SUNRED paid the manufacturer entry fee for their customers, and they were accepted as "works". WTCC needed Citroen, needed Sebastien Loeb... And the capitalized on that situation.

Yes, TC1 was a dead end in hindsight but the series had to make a step in 2014.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 16:04 (Ref:3767130)   #648
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Originally Posted by Tarzaan View Post
I think they have to try to convince the Volvo to stay at least for an another season. Maybe they can oil it with some money.
But no one said Volvo will quit after 2017!!! There were news that they will not be racing with a petrol car "for a long time". I am sure if WTCC decides to keep TC1 for 2018 Volvo will stay for another year.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 16:08 (Ref:3767133)   #649
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Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
No need for full factory teams like DTM or WTCC (Citroen, Volvo) but semi-factory teams. Teams like M1RA (Honda), Craft-Bamboo (SEAT), WRT (VW), etc. Factories supplying drivers, promotion and some financial backing.

And yes electric future is a threat for current forms of motorsport.
Yes but it is up to FIA to accept it as a World Championship. At the moment FIA requires two full-works teams to grand World Championship title.
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Old 15 Sep 2017, 19:33 (Ref:3767174)   #650
FIRE
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Originally Posted by Bramzel View Post
Going to be unpopular for saying this, but seeing the interest in Formula-E I'd say the electric future is a huge opportunity for the current forms of motorsports. It's the lack of willingness of the public to adapt to new times thats the real threat.
You have a good point. There is certainly resistance from the "old school" motorsport fans. I understand manufacturers have interest in Formula E but personaly currently it doesn't interest me. One part of this is because in general I have not much interest in single seaters, I prefer tin tops. On the other hand the current technology that is used isn't very interesting. Also in general I don't like cars and format of the series. To some extent it's a shame DTM and SuperGT don't go the full electric route.


I think it's too early for a electric touring car series with open tech rules and a series with multiple manufacturers using spec electric engine and batteries isn't very interesting for manufacturers. First step would be one make series (or VAG cup with same powertrain). Jaguar has announced such series.
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Old 16 Sep 2017, 08:26 (Ref:3767316)   #651
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Originally Posted by Lanti View Post
Without wanting to be the advocate of the current WTCC managament: this is completely not true.

First: it is up to a manufacturer to decided the length of their participation. I Volvo decides to commit for 2 years you cannot force a 4 years contract on them. These days promoters are happy if a manufacturer want to run a full-works program in their championship, so don't think they can argue with them a lot about the length...

Second: look at Porsche. They had a contract for 2018 but still they decided to stop a year earlier. If a manufacturer want to go, it will go, even is there is a contract.

It is an even greater bullshit to think that WTCC does not give back a lot of their money to the series. They do!

One day EEL is criticized for paying to teams or giving them financial dispensations to keep them, than on the other day for not doing that. I also see a lot of mistakes from the current management but this is completely not fair.
Hi Lanti!

A wrote a longer relply in your website, but i try to summerize that in english here:

Stronger series - F1-FOM/MotoGP-DORNA has the power to make middle term deals with factories and force them. Obviously Eurosport Events or ACO has not got such a power/potency.


Based on the privateers situation i think EE shares only a small margin of its revenue with the competitors. I guess - only guess, because I don't find sources - EE have to have more than 20-25 million Euro/USD revenue from WTCC in a single season.

The 10 track pays a license charge/license fee for the weekends, and in some years ago I read that was more than a million euro. EE also has money from the trackside advertising and from title sponsors + the television rights also represents a decent amount of money - it's hard to say the exact value, because the main media partner is the organizer itself, so we could only just guess the market value of the TV rights- but all in all I THINK EE should be at least 20-25 million
euro/USD per year from WTCC, and imho they should share at least half of them with the competitors, but we officialy can know only one thing: competitors has to pay for the EE about 40-50 000 Euro/season for racing.

EE might be pay for some teams, but I THINK it should based on ad-hoc decisions, not on some well planned system and it's not public. In F1 or Premier League all of these informations are public.

F1 and Premier League shares back most of their revenue to the teams, because the make them the money. So it's not a alms or givts, it is a well deserved money for wich the teams work for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanti View Post
But no one said Volvo will quit after 2017!!! There were news that they will not be racing with a petrol car "for a long time". I am sure if WTCC decides to keep TC1 for 2018 Volvo will stay for another year.
I hope you are right.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 16:10 (Ref:3773453)   #652
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Racing Harz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Tarquini replaces leader Monteiro!
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...uini-deputise/
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 17:40 (Ref:3773461)   #653
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That is not what he needed, I just hope itís just for this weekend, as it would be a shame for the championship to be decided this way. At least Tarquini should do well for him
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 09:14 (Ref:3773601)   #654
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BobJones should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you haven't been watching it, the video series on Monteiro's recovery in fascinating.

Things are/were far more difficult than I imagined. He has vision issues and you can see he now has a squint of sorts.

Here's the first video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQt4k9_t6JE
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 09:20 (Ref:3773605)   #655
BobJones
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BobJones should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
First step would be one make series (or VAG cup with same powertrain). Jaguar has announced such series.
I believe there is/was a one-make Golf-E touring car championship in China. Would be an ideal electric support series in other markets.
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 13:40 (Ref:3773661)   #656
fatbee
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fatbee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
I believe there is/was a one-make Golf-E touring car championship in China. Would be an ideal electric support series in other markets.

e golf race was in Hong Kong formula e as supporting race

i can tell u , battery was over heated and cant stand last
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 21:02 (Ref:3773755)   #657
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Found the elusive buggar!

Ningbo Int'l Circuit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbZ1...0&pbjreload=10

I rather hope they omit the T13/14 chicane; four slow corners in a row is a bit silly, and they don't gain an overtaking point out of it either.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 09:43 (Ref:3774301)   #658
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Mark0994 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Monteiro is still leader in the championship
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 09:44 (Ref:3774302)   #659
Tarzaan
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Tarzaan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Whate a jerk move from the organizers/race direction

They should let only one more lap behind the SC to give half points.

EDIT.

Forget this, it seems the get half points. BTW the track doesn"t seems worst than in te race 1.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 09:46 (Ref:3774303)   #660
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No.

They should get half points!

The leading driver complete more than 2 laps.
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