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Old 3 Sep 2017, 22:07 (Ref:3764274)   #2341
Taxi645
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I personally don't have a solution (may post later if an idea comes to mind), but just like not going negative on the points, fans and the media still do the math and report negative points. Why? They do this today with grid penalties. The math generates massive penalties (effectively negative numbers with respect to the last position on the grid), but yet you can't start any further back than last on the grid. My point is that generally speaking the "size" of the penalties is mostly pointless, but everyone is overly obsessed with them. I am not saying I agree with the current situation either.

Richard

In principle you're right of course it would technically come down to the same. However a few reasons it would be practically different and received more favourable by fans:

1 It hurts the constructor, not the driver as it should.
2 It doesn't mess up the qualification and thus race result.
3 It's generally less intrusive to the Grand Prix weekend.


You could do it differently by splitting an absolute penalty in an absolute and relative part. So for instance an engine penalty would mean you lose 5 points plus 5% of your collected constructors points. That way it doesn't overly hit the bottom teams the way absolute constructors penalties would. I would still not let it go negative, but with this approach the chance of that to happen would be much reduced in the first place.

I reckon this would be an acceptable compromise, that would go a long way to solving the issues with the current set up while not being too complicated.

Last edited by Taxi645; 3 Sep 2017 at 22:14.
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 20:15 (Ref:3766137)   #2342
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I expect to see the future Mercedes AMG Project One as a safety car.
Especially after some complaints of out of pace of the current safety car.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-show...ails-iaa-2017/

https://scontent.fsst1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...c2&oe=5A5F29DC
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Old 11 Sep 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3766140)   #2343
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That looks like a good one to use, so yeah, should be used soon enough
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Old 24 Sep 2017, 05:14 (Ref:3769527)   #2344
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Bob Fernley of Force India complaining about all talk and no action from F1's new owners.

Nice dig at Zak Brown too.

https://www.pitpass.com/60181/All-ta...n-says-Fernley
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Old 24 Sep 2017, 05:50 (Ref:3769531)   #2345
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Sean Bratches, oh dear!

https://www.pitpass.com/60178/F1s-in...to-noise-issue

Seriously!
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Old 24 Sep 2017, 09:30 (Ref:3769539)   #2346
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Future Rule Changes

I just want to say that the people who are in the sport are not getting the chance to make the sport better than it is
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 10:54 (Ref:3773382)   #2347
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31st October 2017, 2021 engine rules to be revealed.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:56 (Ref:3773407)   #2348
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31st October 2017, 2021 engine rules to be revealed.
And cue the it's Halloween, how scary will the new regs be memes.
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Old 12 Oct 2017, 18:36 (Ref:3773888)   #2349
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31st October 2017, 2021 engine rules to be revealed.
will this be the finalized rules or just Liberty/FOM's starting position for negotiations with the teams/manus?
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Old 12 Oct 2017, 20:45 (Ref:3773909)   #2350
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Whatever is proposed it will be awful.

They could continue with what we have. That would be awful. It will show they don't want to make F1 better. We shall hate it.
They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development. We shall hate it.
They could reintroduce real variety. Number of cylinders, turbos or not, etc... this will lead to the teams with the most cash being able to push ahead, try different things and someone will dominate. Back to the old days? We shall hate it.
Or we just have one engine for all. Fair? We shall hate it.
Or maybe somewhere in between these and we'll have a dilution of the best bits and achieve nothing. We shall hate it.

Who'd write rules to try and make people like them. People want different things and some people just don't like anything anyway.

So in the same way that the next race will be boring, so the next set of rules will be awful. Prepare yourself.

FWIW, I favour more variety even at the expense of a close grid.
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Old 12 Oct 2017, 22:43 (Ref:3773927)   #2351
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Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
Whatever is proposed it will be awful.

They could continue with what we have. That would be awful. It will show they don't want to make F1 better. We shall hate it.
They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development. We shall hate it.
They could reintroduce real variety. Number of cylinders, turbos or not, etc... this will lead to the teams with the most cash being able to push ahead, try different things and someone will dominate. Back to the old days? We shall hate it.
Or we just have one engine for all. Fair? We shall hate it.
Or maybe somewhere in between these and we'll have a dilution of the best bits and achieve nothing. We shall hate it.

Who'd write rules to try and make people like them. People want different things and some people just don't like anything anyway.

So in the same way that the next race will be boring, so the next set of rules will be awful. Prepare yourself.

FWIW, I favour more variety even at the expense of a close grid.
Thanks for this depressing and probably correct scenario Adam.

"They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development."

This would be my choice. I want to see racing, and it should be allied with simplified aerodynamics, single plane, narrower front wings for a start.

I really don't like the current black box approach to racing, all we know is that the Mercedes PU is significantly better than anyone else, we do not know why or how other than some speculation.

So what is the point of having expensive and diverse engineering?

Nice way for the manufacturers to milk there racing budget out of the rest of the field through the supply of PUs?


P.S. I believe that Ross Brawn is just going to deliver the next logical step in what we currently have! A really horrible result that I will hate!
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 03:47 (Ref:3774588)   #2352
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Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 04:46 (Ref:3774598)   #2353
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Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland
I'm going to give Liberty the benefit of the doubt. Bernie quit at the beginning of the year, with Liberty inheriting what was already in place. Being new to the machinations of F1, they presided over the season, letting it run its course.

The season is nearly over and Liberty will have gained much from what they have observed. I therefore expect Liberty to start acting before the season is out and continue into the off season and preparing for next year.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 08:57 (Ref:3774610)   #2354
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well Bernie would say that, hes got to protect his own legacy. Imho, Liberty have done alright so far
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 09:56 (Ref:3774625)   #2355
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything

[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass.
"They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.]

https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland

That's the difference between Ad-hoc decision making and long term planning; One you can do quickly but often leads to questionable ill-conceived outcomes, the other takes longer but hopefully produces a higher quality result.
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