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Old 4 Mar 2013, 22:03 (Ref:3214273)   #1
Chappelli
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The Erebus Way.... (merged)

From 3rd best team in 2012, to 3 of the slowest cars at Clipsal, SBR has a new name, a new owner and some beautiful sounding new cars....

Many were picking the new SBR to be ahead of the Kelly’s in the battle of the new cars to the class, but while it appears that it’s status quo in the Kelly gangs pace department, the first outing for the Mercedes has been a monumental leap backwards for a team that last year had all three of their wagons finish the Championship in the top 10.....

So, where to for Erebus from here? Will we see the know how that made SBR a perennial contender drag the Mercs to some more respectable results in the first half of the season, or will the car suffer longer term with a lack of straight-line speed as the German maestro’s prioritise a looming European season where they have skin in the game, ahead of a customer deal on the other side of the world.... has doing things the “Erebus way” turned the the former Falcon powerhouse into a well financed also rans?
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Old 4 Mar 2013, 22:21 (Ref:3214281)   #2
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In all honesty I thing they did a good job considering the base they were starting with and lack of testing allowed. With the powers that be cutting the costs it has cost Erebus a lot with lack of testing.

Even the factory prepared cars of FPV had issues....I'm sure after the Australian GP the cars will be better for they will use the GP weekend as a test session like all others.

The short lead time and lack of testing is showing but I have faith in the team and the AMG Customer support even leading into the Enduro session in the northern hemisphere.
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Old 4 Mar 2013, 22:27 (Ref:3214283)   #3
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NZSTfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Maybe ask this question again at the end of the year.

If they are still flailing around down the back, then they have a BIG problem.

This is quite common in m/sport when a new manufacturer comes on board. Its all fine and dandy to whip up something on solid works that looks like it should deliver, but putting the machine in race conditions is totally different, irrespective of how much testing and modelling you have done on the car.

I'd hope to see a gradual increase in pace for the mercs, i mean they are the best sounding thing out there for sure (and thats just coming fom TV coverage - i can only imagine what they sound like in real life, or wait until April when they come to NZ)
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Old 4 Mar 2013, 22:43 (Ref:3214290)   #4
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I think the hard part for them with such a new car and engine is that testing is all but nonexistent. Looks like they will have to treat their race weekends as test sessions for a while to work out how to pick up some speed.
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Old 4 Mar 2013, 22:52 (Ref:3214292)   #5
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Unfortunately I can't see Erebus getting anywhere in a hurry. Mercedes Benz Aust wisely didn't want any part of this venture and may even put pressure on head office in Germany to pull out of the engine deal before years end (can't have crappodores making Mercs look second rate!)..........and with reports on this forum of Skaife preparing to remove any power advantage they may have, it will be a long road ahead.

I know it's premature but I'm prepared to say that from a manufacturers stand point the championship is already over, it's just a matter of which T8 chassis will win it?
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Old 4 Mar 2013, 23:54 (Ref:3214307)   #6
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I know it's premature but I'm prepared to say that from a manufacturers stand point the championship is already over, it's just a matter of which T8 chassis will win it?

I tend to agree with you on that one bluesport
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 01:56 (Ref:3214329)   #7
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Its all very early days and its going to be a very long year. It will take them a while to get up to speed but they will get there. They sound and look great.
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 02:21 (Ref:3214332)   #8
Chappelli
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I agree with most of that... and I agree that teething problems are always going to happen.... although however unfortunate it is, I don’t think looking and sound great is going to help their lap times.

My point is however, that everyone is using unfamiliar/untested chassis, with the Kellys sharing in the pain that is bringing an entirely new package to the track....

The Kellys however performed better in Q1 this year, than they did last year.... so while an entirely new package is a challenge, the regulations are specifically designed to provide a level-ish playing field with the Kellys being some sort of evidence that status quo can be achieved (or at the very least evidence that what Erebus rolled out was below what probably was expected).

Crystal balling a little... a think they’ll struggle in the engine dept. all year. I think we could well see Slade and Holdsworth sniffing around for seats elsewhere and it wouldn’t surprise me if we some staff movement in the workshop... unless Mercedes decide they want in, I think it’s going to be a very long few years for Erebus and in the near future at least, I can’t seem them being the contender that SBR was....
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 04:27 (Ref:3214359)   #9
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rich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Unfortunately I can't see Erebus getting anywhere in a hurry. Mercedes Benz Aust wisely didn't want any part of this venture and may even put pressure on head office in Germany to pull out of the engine deal before years end
I dont think so.

Mercedes Benz Aus arent paying for the engine deal so I dont think they have much sway in that department. As long as AMG/HWA still get paid by Erebus they'll still keep working on the engines etc.

Mercedes Aus may be narrow sighted but Norbert Haug was apparently a fan of the idea (yeah I know hes gone now), not sure what Toto Wolff thinks but as long as the money keeps rolling their way I dont think he'll be in a hurry to wrap things up.
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 04:36 (Ref:3214361)   #10
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Nicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Have to remember that it isn't just about the chassis. The engine will need to be fine tuned for Australian conditions. They were having issues with their throttle system and what not. Just because the chassis is the same doesn't mean that all the systems are the same.

I also suspect it doesn't help having only three months to build 3 cars and get them tested. There might not be testing but I reckon T8 and other will have had cars on test beds looking at all sorts of different setups and the like.

It also doesn't help that Maro Engle is basically useless for developing the car at races. He's going to be flat out learning the tracks and the series. Look at Premat last year and this year so far.

I suspect a year of pain ahead for both Nissan and Erebus. Not so sure about next year though.
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 06:23 (Ref:3214384)   #11
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formerf1champ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's only one weekend man. However...

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Originally Posted by Chappelli View Post
So, where to for Erebus from here?
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Originally Posted by Chappelli View Post
Crystal balling a little... a think they’ll struggle in the engine dept. all year. I think we could well see Slade and Holdsworth sniffing around for seats elsewhere and it wouldn’t surprise me if we some staff movement in the workshop...I think it’s going to be a very long few years for Erebus and in the near future at least, I can’t seem them being the contender that SBR was....
This was all that needed to be written, on another thread.
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 06:39 (Ref:3214396)   #12
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porsche91722 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridporsche91722 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridporsche91722 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Sure... they had a poor weekend in Adelaide, but the cars were practically straight out of the box, with hardly any test klms on them. $$$ don't seem to be an issue, so I think Betty will throw everything at it.
Now I don't think for one moment , that the powers that be, would give them any advantage. However, it won't be a good look, if the Mercedes badged cars fail to perform before the end of the year. V8SC's have been crowing long and hard about the two new additions to the grid this year, in Nissan and Mercedes (sorry, Erebus ), so one way or another, expect to see some miraculous improvements by about mid season. I'm sure they wouldn't want to give MB Aust any ammunition to have them removed.
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Old 5 Mar 2013, 14:49 (Ref:3214600)   #13
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I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't happening already, that an Erebus/SBR developed engine may taking shape, in much the same way FPR took over the UK sourced Prodrive grenades. I'm not suggesting Erebus take over the engine program, but the resources should be there to knock one up the Erebus and PW way if he is still there. There is a lot of world class knowhow in SBR and Aus on how to extract circuit ponies from 5 litres.

Somehow I reckon the outright numbers or the curves may not be the problem, as AMG would have had full engine profile targets in developing these powerpacks. It only takes a small delivery problem to consistently knock hundredths out of each straight, which quickly accumulate into tenths on the lap timer.

Erebus will be ok.
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Old 7 Mar 2013, 01:10 (Ref:3215348)   #14
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I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't happening already, that an Erebus/SBR developed engine may taking shape, in much the same way FPR took over the UK sourced Prodrive grenades. I'm not suggesting Erebus take over the engine program, but the resources should be there to knock one up the Erebus and PW way if he is still there. There is a lot of world class knowhow in SBR and Aus on how to extract circuit ponies from 5 litres.
Agree!!! FPR was a shambless with the imported engine and it took that move to get them right. Mind you, by then their prized steerer had packed up for the greener pastures of T8.

I remember getting told once at HRT, that what they see on the dyno, doesn't ever transfer perfectly to the engine bay and the track.


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Somehow I reckon the outright numbers or the curves may not be the problem, as AMG would have had full engine profile targets in developing these powerpacks. It only takes a small delivery problem to consistently knock hundredths out of each straight, which quickly accumulate into tenths on the lap timer.
They should have a mountain of data and simulation software to be able to hit this nail on the head. If the Kelly's are talking about throwing another set of cams at their engine to help sort it out, sounds like they've pretty much got a handle on it, as the bottom end would almost be the same as the GM block in terms of spec's.

With AMG's "flat plane crank", exhaust, intake and firing order system, goodness knows what they're going to have to do to extract the addtional power out. At least they'll have SBR trace data from last year to see there weak points.
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Old 7 Mar 2013, 01:45 (Ref:3215355)   #15
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have to agree with most of the sentiments already posted. It's too soon to say they will struggle for the entire year IMO. Both the Nissan and Erebus teams have admitted they are still chasing more power from their engines, so their competitiveness depends on how quickly they can chase those power gains.

Don't forget too that the Mercs have a fly-by-wire throttle, and that seemed to be causing them a fair few problems, which you can safely say is a teething issue. How many race cars these days use a fly-by-wire throttle system? Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members among us may be able to fill answer that one for me.
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