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Old 1 Sep 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3763362)   #16
RedZedMikey
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I will preface this by saying I am a Nissan owner, and Nissan Motorsport member. I have 2 Nissans in the driveway at the moment. No Altimas, not my cup of tea at all. No utes or SUVs either. OK, the Altima has not been a sales success - but was the Supercars program about moving Altimas, or about brand marketing? Let's face it, a CVT equipped fwd V6 isn't going to get a lot of peoples blood rushing.

I don't get how people want more manufacturers, but when one comes in, in 2013, they get bagged because of a poor win/loss record. So if Kia comes in, and is also a middle of the road team, I guess they will get bagged as well.

When Nissan and the Erebus AMG entered with DOHC motors, they had to stick with engine parameters relevant to the OHV Fords/Chevs, both with long development history. At least when Volvo came in they were allowed to use a different bore/stroke to arrive at the 5000cc - possibly that was a factor in why their DOHC was a success. AMG and Volvo are gone, but Nissan is still hanging in there.

Nissan have not been a winner (apart from a couple), but they have not been a failure, either. They are usually middle of the road, with some weaker and some stronger results. An LDM they are not!

With all the bleating about the VASC future, with no new manufacturers on the horizon, and with Holden being the only other manufacturer committing dollars to the game, that there would be a bit more positivity about trying to keep Nissan in instead of trying to create a negative about Mr Emery leaving. Or do you guys want VASC to become the VCC (VACC is taken)???

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Old 1 Sep 2017, 09:38 (Ref:3763377)   #17
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I will preface this by saying I am a Nissan owner, and Nissan Motorsport member. I have 2 Nissans in the driveway at the moment. No Altimas, not my cup of tea at all. No utes or SUVs either. OK, the Altima has not been a sales success - but was the Supercars program about moving Altimas, or about brand marketing? Let's face it, a CVT equipped fwd V6 isn't going to get a lot of peoples blood rushing.

I don't get how people want more manufacturers, but when one comes in, in 2013, they get bagged because of a poor win/loss record. So if Kia comes in, and is also a middle of the road team, I guess they will get bagged as well.

When Nissan and the Erebus AMG entered with DOHC motors, they had to stick with engine parameters relevant to the OHV Fords/Chevs, both with long development history. At least when Volvo came in they were allowed to use a different bore/stroke to arrive at the 5000cc - possibly that was a factor in why their DOHC was a success. AMG and Volvo are gone, but Nissan is still hanging in there.

Nissan have not been a winner (apart from a couple), but they have not been a failure, either. They are usually middle of the road, with some weaker and some stronger results. An LDM they are not!

With all the bleating about the VASC future, with no new manufacturers on the horizon, and with Holden being the only other manufacturer committing dollars to the game, that there would be a bit more positivity about trying to keep Nissan in instead of trying to create a negative about Mr Emery leaving. Or do you guys want VASC to become the VCC (VACC is taken)???
It would be great if Nissan wanted to stay. A start would be to sign top-level drivers like the off-contract Mr. Mostert to pilot the Nissan chariots.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Nissan Motorsport has the proper budget and (subsequently) proper choice of drivers to be a competitive force.

I would definitely be in favour of Nissan receiving parity concessions on the engine front. That Volvo were able to allowed a longer stroke than everyone else is most unfair, and was a big advantage to them given the low 7500rpm rev limit (whereby torque is what you want to optimise).
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 09:55 (Ref:3763383)   #18
Umai Naa
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Volvo started with a smaller capacity engine.

Both Erebus and Nissan could have done the same thing.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 12:31 (Ref:3763414)   #19
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Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Nissan Motorsport has the proper budget and (subsequently) proper choice of drivers to be a competitive force.
Good question. Does Nissan kick in enough dollars to the effort to decide who drives the cars?

They presumebly choose Caruso to drive the car with their stickers all over it, but what about the other two cars driven by the Kelly's?

The 4th car is seemingly a rent-a-car with the driver needing to bring the budget (Dale Wood in 2016, Simona in 2017)
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 12:54 (Ref:3763419)   #20
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Both Erebus and Nissan could have done the same thing.
I guess that's true. What smaller capacity V8s were in the catalogue of the brands at that time?

Never mind, I see there is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M273_engine 92mm bore (versus the Volvo's 94mm bore)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine VK45DE with 93mm bore

Clearly the engineers of AMG and Nissan missed a trick.

On the other hand, how were they supposed to know that in the future, one year after the introduction of COTF, that Volvo would be allowed to use a smaller bore compared to the bore size of the pushrod engines, which AMG and Nissan were (presumably) told to match!?

Nissan were, if reports were correct, not even told that AMG were going to be allowed to use a flat-plane crankshaft!?

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Old 1 Sep 2017, 14:37 (Ref:3763438)   #21
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Remarking that the Nissan isn't a winning car compared to a Commodore is to ignore history.

How many championships did Kelly Racing win in Commodores?

How many race wins?
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 14:39 (Ref:3763439)   #22
Umai Naa
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Standard bore size is kind of irrelevant, as they'll just bore them out to suit whatever capacity anyway.

In Volvo's defence, they had no other options as far as engines go.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:26 (Ref:3763642)   #23
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In Volvo's defence, they had no other options as far as engines go.
Yes, and it gave them a large advantage as it allowed them to use a longer stroke and emphasise torque within the low 7500rpm engine rev limit.

If the rev limit was 9500rpm, then of course Volvo's longer stroke and smaller bore would have been a disadvantage compared to rivals, but it isn't and it wasn't.

It's surely not a coincidence that the Volvo engine was immediately competitive, whereas the Nissan and AMG engines were neither immediately competitive nor arguably ever competitive.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:30 (Ref:3763643)   #24
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How many race wins?
Some.

Kelly's should certainly attempt to sign Mostert and perhaps Stanaway to bolster their driving lineup.

Caruso could be dropped, while Todd could take on co-driver duties.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 05:29 (Ref:3763667)   #25
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Volvo started with a smaller capacity engine.

Both Erebus and Nissan could have done the same thing.
IIRC the Kelly's were upset about this allowance at the time, remarking they would have gone down the same path if it had of been made available to them.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 05:51 (Ref:3763671)   #26
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It was their choice to make.

They nominated the 5.6L motor well before the Nissan deal was even signed off on.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 10:27 (Ref:3763704)   #27
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It was their choice to make.

They nominated the 5.6L motor well before the Nissan deal was even signed off on.
If they were nominating the 5.6, they were probably told what bore they had to use - which probably ruled out the 4.5 litre at that point. Volvo didn't have a bigger V8 than the 4.4; what I don't know is whether Volvo/Polestar had to fight for the smaller bore, and stroke it to 5 lt, or if V8SC offered it up.

Even when going to the 5.6 litre motor, they still had to use larger pistons than the factory block. Ex factory, the bore/stroke is 98/82mm, the VASC version is 102.69/75.31mm. Given Nissan wanted to start with a stock block, maybe the VK45 didn't have enough meat to run those pistons, ex factory that block has 93mm slugs. The VK45 block was cast in japan; as far as I know the VK56 was cast in the US, so differences are likely.

Perhaps what Nissan/Nismo/Kellys should have done is hold out for a better combo in the early stages before announcing the program.

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Old 7 Oct 2017, 22:52 (Ref:3772748)   #28
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Still No Decision at Nissan

The language used by new Nissan Australia boss Stephen Lester in this article isn't overly positive....
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3772917)   #29
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Perhaps what Nissan/Nismo/Kellys should have done is hold out for a better combo in the early stages before announcing the program.
I don't know. With Gen 2 now, in theory, they can drop in a R35 GTR crate engine (it already makes 590bhp in conservative 200,000km+ stock tune) and fiddle with the computer so the output matches that of the best V8. It should be simple, in theory...
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 10:12 (Ref:3772950)   #30
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I don't know. With Gen 2 now, in theory, they can drop in a R35 GTR crate engine (it already makes 590bhp in conservative 200,000km+ stock tune) and fiddle with the computer so the output matches that of the best V8. It should be simple, in theory...
In a body shell no longer sold, and with aero that nobody knows is equivalent to the other two.

Running 2 teams of that brand would build inter-team competition and give a gauge as to where stuff needs to be worked on.

Right now, at Bathurst anyway, the engine holds them back.
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