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Old 20 Sep 2017, 21:48 (Ref:3768875)   #31
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I don't know if Michelin will automatically make better tires (unless IMSA adopt ACO style pit rules), but I can't be the only one who finds it strange that the DPIs have been seemingly limited to running the same lap times around most tracks that Audi R8s, Panoz Roadsters and Dyson Lolas were running 12-15 years ago, even more than that going back to around 2000.

The Dunlops on LMP2s at Sebring got those cars to the point where at Sebring this year they could've easily been in the top 5 overall in qualifying there in 2012.

I'd think it would be reasonable for DPIs to be running 2006-07 or maybe even 2011 LMP1 lap times around most tracks. And I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the Continental tires are the major factor here.

Whether or not it's on Continental or IMSA or percentage of fault is a matter of debate.
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 21:59 (Ref:3768876)   #32
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
Michelin has a much larger market share in North America than Conti, so they probably have a much larger marketing budget.
For tires yes, but Continental is quite a bit larger company than Michelin. Tires is not Conti's core business anymore as their focus is on electronics and interior bits since Siemens and Johnson Controls have exited the automotive market.


...not sure what that has to do with the topic, but I typed it already.
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 22:05 (Ref:3768877)   #33
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I don't know if Michelin will automatically make better tires (unless IMSA adopt ACO style pit rules), but I can't be the only one who finds it strange that the DPIs have been seemingly limited to running the same lap times around most tracks that Audi R8s, Panoz Roadsters and Dyson Lolas were running 12-15 years ago, even more than that going back to around 2000.

The Dunlops on LMP2s at Sebring got those cars to the point where at Sebring this year they could've easily been in the top 5 overall in qualifying there in 2012.

I'd think it would be reasonable for DPIs to be running 2006-07 or maybe even 2011 LMP1 lap times around most tracks. And I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the Continental tires are the major factor here.

Whether or not it's on Continental or IMSA or percentage of fault is a matter of debate.
I thought it was widely known that the Continental compound is harder than Michelin and Dunlop tires in the WEC? I don't think there is any blame to place? I'm not concerned with comparative lap times myself, but how the prototypes perform in relationship with the other classes.
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3768878)   #34
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I just don't see that happening with the next set of LMP regulations. Long term, who knows.
I do not think that the DPi rule set will change in 2020 either. A large part of moving to DPi was the assurance that there would be a stable platform for several years at a set. Now we may see something grow out of the 2020 ACO rule set for DPi a year or two after that. Maybe we will see some basic continuity in P-2 and P-1 chassis in that ACO rule set? If they could get some basic fundamental commonality in the chassis dimensions we may see some cross pollination in prototype en masse. Though it is a wonder if we will have omelettes or fried chicken?



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Old 20 Sep 2017, 23:15 (Ref:3768896)   #35
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The stars are aligning. If Michelin use their lmp1 knowledge for tires in the P class, then it will be easier for DPi-to-lmp1 regs to happen and teams have more than just a common ruleset, but common tires. Good move by IMSA and Michelin imo.
Then the top class will be called DPi. You can't retroactively name it to fit you're agenda, but there's still room on the bandwagon.
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 23:17 (Ref:3768898)   #36
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I don't know if Michelin will automatically make better tires (unless IMSA adopt ACO style pit rules), but I can't be the only one who finds it strange that the DPIs have been seemingly limited to running the same lap times around most tracks that Audi R8s, Panoz Roadsters and Dyson Lolas were running 12-15 years ago, even more than that going back to around 2000.

The Dunlops on LMP2s at Sebring got those cars to the point where at Sebring this year they could've easily been in the top 5 overall in qualifying there in 2012.

I'd think it would be reasonable for DPIs to be running 2006-07 or maybe even 2011 LMP1 lap times around most tracks. And I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the Continental tires are the major factor here.

Whether or not it's on Continental or IMSA or percentage of fault is a matter of debate.
Michelin tires will be worse now that they're dumping a dead series for IMSA. INTERNET LOGIC
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:34 (Ref:3768950)   #37
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Originally Posted by DeezPutz View Post
Michelin tires will be worse now that they're dumping a dead series for IMSA. INTERNET LOGIC
Ok, not sure everyone is on the same page here. We don't know for sure what the Michelin tires will be. Will they be completely new? or based on an existing tire they make. It is most likely that the tires to be used in IMSA will probably be based on Michelin's LMP2 tire, not their LMP1 tire. Currently in the WEC, nobody uses their LMP2 tire because the Dunlop is seemingly better. At Le Mans, the highest placed Michelin shod P2 was 10th in class. There are a couple of teams who have used the Michelin P2 tire in the ELMS, but they aren't setting the world afire there either.

Oh and occasionally it is nice to respond to somebodies post you don't agree with by saying what you think about the topic instead of just telling somebody else they are foolish.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:51 (Ref:3768957)   #38
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Originally Posted by DeezPutz View Post
Then the top class will be called DPi. You can't retroactively name it to fit you're agenda, but there's still room on the bandwagon.
Your post doesn't make sense. I didn't say they were going to change the name of DPi to lmp1, I said that the rules in the future will be aligned and that DPi-to-lmp1 could be doable for teams in IMSA and vice versa.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 03:05 (Ref:3768962)   #39
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 04:45 (Ref:3768978)   #40
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I honestly doubt Micjhelin would have been given the contract unless they could promise a better-performing tire than the Contis ... and I am not sure anyone could make a worse tire.

True the Contis were ultra-consistent: hard as a rock and slippery at the beginning or end of a stint. Probably could have run exactly the same for three stints ... in a series where the pit rules make double-stinting pointless.
I'd imagine Michelin could have built a better P2 tire, but why bother? let Dunlop have the also-rans while Michelin spent its engineering prowess making sure it shod the winners, in both P1 anf GT Pro, where all the attention is focused.

As I said above ... I imagine IMSA wants to see DPi times comparable with WEC P2 and maybe P1-L ... and those rock-hard Contis were never going to get them there.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 05:47 (Ref:3768982)   #41
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Problem is that the Continentals were hard as a rock and not particulary fast and yet seemingly not very durable or long lasting. They were almost as bad at times as Goodyear's NASCAR tires on prototypes, especially in the rain as demonstrated at PLM a couple of years ago (by and far the worst tire package I've seen in road racing, even compared to Pirelli in F1. Nothing though can out-do Goodyear in NASCAR for making junk.).

Why design such a hard tire without a provision to double or even triple stint? IMSA's rules don't make sense in that regard.

And if IMSA wants to see the DPIs increase in speed to being roughly similar to LMP2--or let alone they adopt ACO style pit rules where you can't refuel and change tires at the same time--you need grippy tires that can last.

Granted, didn't someone from Continental say they could easily make better tires but IMSA asked them not to?
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3768987)   #42
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I think that was largely due to the old DPs still being out there, and rather than have two totally different tires in the P class, they just made the LMP2s run the DP tires.

Then, with the contract being up for grabs, it wouldn't make sense for Conti to make a substantial investment to "catch up" to WEC LMP2, at least not until they had the new contract. Since they don't, I imagine we'll see the status quo until Michelin takes over.

Come 2019, it doesn't make sense for Michelin to design and build an all-new, de-spec'd tire when they, at the least, have a ready-made tire for the type of car.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:54 (Ref:3769031)   #43
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I think that was largely due to the old DPs still being out there, and rather than have two totally different tires in the P class, they just made the LMP2s run the DP tires.

Then, with the contract being up for grabs, it wouldn't make sense for Conti to make a substantial investment to "catch up" to WEC LMP2, at least not until they had the new contract. Since they don't, I imagine we'll see the status quo until Michelin takes over.

Come 2019, it doesn't make sense for Michelin to design and build an all-new, de-spec'd tire when they, at the least, have a ready-made tire for the type of car.
Supposedly, the P class tires from Continental we're all new for this season. I remember seeing some press about it before the season started, and the Taylor team was a big part of the tire testing program preseason.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 13:03 (Ref:3769038)   #44
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Supposedly, the P class tires from Continental we're all new for this season. I remember seeing some press about it before the season started, and the Taylor team was a big part of the tire testing program preseason.
There were because the previous tire was the DP tire and wasn't well suited to the P2s. The new tires for this season was built for the DPi/P2 chassis and the different way the tires are loaded.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 13:43 (Ref:3769045)   #45
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They can't make the tire too much stickier than it is now, they gotta keep them reigned in at Daytona.
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