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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:18 (Ref:3771209)   #16
wnut
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wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
How about Tony Brise? As a rookie he had Merzario, Migault, Jones and Stommelen as team mates, and was never out-qualified or out raced by any of them
Huge talent lost.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 10:34 (Ref:3771228)   #17
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes Brise was one who could have been. And Collins would have been if he hadn't given it away to Fangio
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 10:31 (Ref:3772038)   #18
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I would agree with Massa, in his pomp he was pretty much number 1 at Ferrari, was hustling Schuey very nicely and often had the beating of Kimi, so should have nabbed at least one.

Obviously Moss, not so sure about Gilles, he was a race man not a championship man, self confessed! But you have to think given time one was likely.

I would also go for Carlos Reutemann, it was in his hands and he threw it away.

Jacky Ickx obviously did not want to win it when he had the chance.

Would agree with Ronnie, should have won with Lotus first time around.

Agreed on Montoya, proved himself quicker than Schuey and tougher more than a few times, so in a better car a likely champ. Not so much Webber, never really had the beating of Seb, and when he did he messed up.

Bellof? Was not around for long enough to know. Sadly.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 10:56 (Ref:3772041)   #19
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wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Jo Siffert: Started slowly but was a huge talent when he was killed.
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 08:07 (Ref:3772921)   #20
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bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Francois Cevert and Ronnie Peterson immediately spring to mind.
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 17:38 (Ref:3773046)   #21
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Carlos Reutemann has to be on the list too.

He obtained the second position in the championship in 1981, he lost the title by only 1 point with Piquet that year.
He got the third position in the championship in 3 occasions (1975, 1978 and 1980) and he was fourth in 1977.
He got 12 Victories in F1: Nurburgring (Nordschleife) in 1975, Monaco (1980), Long Beach (1978), Brands Hatch (1978), 2 times in Watkins Glen (1974 and 1978), Osterreichring in 1974, Kyalami 1974, 3 times in Brazil (1977, 1978 and 1981) and Zolder 1981.
He has certainly to be on that list.
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 21:31 (Ref:3773083)   #22
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Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
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Jo Siffert: Started slowly but was a huge talent when he was killed.
Great shout.
I don't know if he could have become an F1 world champion, but I'd like to think so.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 01:53 (Ref:3773322)   #23
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 10:07 (Ref:3773383)   #24
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chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
Nannini wasn't an ace imo so I don't see him a lost WDC at all.

Johnny Herbert was more than good enough had he not had the career changing shunt at Brands. The fact that he was still competitive in most cars and on most circuits for years when he came back full time is quite telling.

Montoya is a definite! he should've had 2003 but for a couple of reliability issues, the Monza tyre debacle and a non penalty in Indy!

Alesi certainly.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 11:17 (Ref:3773394)   #25
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F J Nedos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
  • Coulthard?
  • As descrobed on Top Gear, the 62 year old brazillian Barrichello?
  • Berger?

I think Maldonado had it in him...
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:48 (Ref:3773415)   #26
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Just because a driver is good or had some wins doesn't mean he automatically should have won the drivers championship. Very few people in the history of mankind have won GP's, let along have that extra brilliance to win a championship. You have to (usually - some exceptions) be special, great to win it. Most drivers who 'deserved' to win the world championship did so with very few exceptions.

Coulthard - no, couldn't beat Mika or Kimi and was prone to too many off days and mistakes. Never looked like winning the championship in all his years there and had a competitive car for most of it.

Berger - no, won 3 races with McLaren (first one gifted to him by Senna after 2 years winless) during when Senna won 2 championships and a host of races. Good on his day - which was only every so often but never a world beater. Also had access to competitive cars more often than not.

Alesi - no, was temperamental. He was described as 'mercurial' for a reason. Didn't exactly put Berger away either. Wouldn't have had the brain to put a championship together. A disillusioned Prost, past his best still put Alesi well and truly away in 91.

Barrichello - no, was murdered by Schumacher, regardless of the way the team was set up. Schumacher usually was well ahead so that it didn't matter. If RB was good enough, he would have been tucked up behind MS a lot. Had his measure sometimes but that's not enough.

Webber - no, Vettel was better in the same car and by a lot over their seasons together. Blown diffuser issues or not, them's the facts. Possibly if he's had a better car earlier in his career, may have developed a more winning habit? Regardless, he was never an Alonso/Lewis/Seb/Kimi (once upon a time) though, they being the best of his main era.

Note the drivers I'm comparing the above guys against which stops them from being in this bracket - they were being beaten by the best, the chosen few special talents.

All the guys above were good, in the same way Martin Brundle was good - easily good enough to win races in the right machinery but a world championship? Qualifying aside, Brundle gave Schumacher a good run in the races in 02. MS only won one race on 02 so the car was only picking up the scraps from the Williams domination and McLaren leftovers.

I also think (and not intending to be cruel) that drivers who were killed early in their career kind of don't count in an argument like this. There's not enough evidence to say they would have been champions. Stefano Modena looked great in F3 and 3000 for example. Had he been lost to F1 in some way, people would have listed him here.

Moss for example had a largely full career and gave it a bloody good go, this is the type of driver we should be talking about. The fact he didn't win it doesn't diminish his brilliance. Bellof and Brise weren't around long enough unfortunately to say if they would have been or not. Bellof actually had a flaw that perhaps contributed to him being killed - no other world champ had a bravery bordering on a death wish - you can't win a world championship driving without due care for ones own safety in the way Bellof (and Gilles) did.

Kubica could easily be in this bracket but again we'll never know (or we might depending on what Williams do). Kubica was a far better prospect than any of the guys listed above in my 'no' camp. He was a genuinely special driver.

I think of Bellof, Brise etc. as great lost talents sure but future world champs is a bit of a stretch, lots of ifs and buts to overcome.

There are really very few drivers who didn't win the world championship but should have.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 17:47 (Ref:3773477)   #27
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loon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Matias Rossi, given the chance he would have slain them all!!
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 20:49 (Ref:3773505)   #28
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Here's the Autosport best 25 drivers never to win the title from 2014
25) Laffite (he was in last race contention in 1981 remember, which says something)
24) Pace (Bernie said he would never have needed the Rat if Pace had lived)
23) Alboreto
22) Barrichello
21) Berger
20) DC
19) Arnoux (in last round contention in 1983)
18) von Trips (bit surprised he hasn't been mentioned yet, even if the Ferrari was that much better than the rest in 1961)
17) Wattie
16) Regazzoni (in contention last round 1974)
15) Lole
14) Cevert
13) Behra (I think he might have had an outside chance in 56, despite not winning a WC race)
12) Amon
11) JPM
10) Massa
9) Pironi
8) Brooks
7) The Pampas Bull, Gonzalez
6) Ickx
5) Peterson
4) Gurney
3) Kubica
2) Villeneuve
1) Moss
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3773524)   #29
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I don't get the fascination for Kubica.

He was not impressive in junior formulae.

He was roundly beaten by Heidfeld with the exception of Canada in 2008; a race gifted to him when Hamilton drove into the back of Raikkonen and Ferrari messed up Massa's refueling stop.

WDC! You have to be kidding.

Enlighten me please.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 23:07 (Ref:3773532)   #30
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
How about his performances in the 2010 Renault? He regularly put his car among the RBRs, Ferraris and McLarens. If thatís not WC material, IDK what is
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