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Old 30 Sep 2017, 15:06 (Ref:3770740)   #16
AdrianM
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AdrianM should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Button 2009. Car started off well but was well behind the others due to lack of development during the season as things went on.
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Old 30 Sep 2017, 15:58 (Ref:3770752)   #17
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'd say Schumacher's car was better than the Williams in 94, but not 95
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Old 1 Oct 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3771093)   #18
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I can't accept Button in 09. Brawn won 6 of the first 7 races. RB was the best car by the end of the season but Ross Brawn has said (on a Motorsport Magazine podcast) he felt the car was still very competitive and that Button got nervous - a polite way of saying Button choked a bit.

Brawn also won the constructors championship...with Button and Barrichello, hardly 2 of the all time greats.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 01:26 (Ref:3771138)   #19
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 05:21 (Ref:3771171)   #20
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
If he wins the WDC, then yes.

In short, Ferrari was ahead at the start of 2017 season by a bit. Mercedes caught up and were toe to toe by mid season. After the summer break however, Ferrari is well ahead with both the chassis and the engine.

Ferrari don't have a track that suits their cars as the car has worked well on all tracks. Mercedes had a small advantage at Spa but since then nothing. Ferrari is expected to have the edge over Mercedes until season's end, so IMO, the Ferrari has been the best car of 2017. But they won't have anything to show for it. No WCC. No WDC.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:31 (Ref:3771213)   #21
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Rosberg in 1982 of course having not read the thread.

I would say Prost in 86, the Williams was far the better car. And maybe even 85, but the year swung a lot in terms of who was quickest.

Maybe one of Alonso's? He was up against the dominant team of that period.

Hakkinen in 99? Think maybe Schuey would have won that one too were it not for the crash.

Would never say 94 Schuey as they cheated and in 95 they had the same engine as Williams, so hardly unequal!!
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3771215)   #22
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How about Hamilton, 2017?
Sand bagging a car that is 1.5 secs a lap faster than anything else doesn't count!

They are just playing with the rest of the field to make sure the rules are not drastically changed and they lose several more guaranteed titles.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 09:59 (Ref:3771220)   #23
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If he wins the WDC, then yes.

In short, Ferrari was ahead at the start of 2017 season by a bit. Mercedes caught up and were toe to toe by mid season. After the summer break however, Ferrari is well ahead with both the chassis and the engine.

Ferrari don't have a track that suits their cars as the car has worked well on all tracks. Mercedes had a small advantage at Spa but since then nothing. Ferrari is expected to have the edge over Mercedes until season's end, so IMO, the Ferrari has been the best car of 2017. But they won't have anything to show for it. No WCC. No WDC.
Mercedes was under quite some pressure in Monza apparently. After all, after Spa Mercedes "had nothing".
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 10:57 (Ref:3771232)   #24
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Mercedes was under quite some pressure in Monza apparently. After all, after Spa Mercedes "had nothing".
40 laps into the Monza GP Lewis had a 60 second lead over Vettel with the engine turned down!
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 11:01 (Ref:3771234)   #25
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The cognitive dissonance on this forum is quite staggering at times...
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 11:25 (Ref:3771239)   #26
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Mercedes was under quite some pressure in Monza apparently. After all, after Spa Mercedes "had nothing".
Ah yes, Monza. Let's recap shall we?

FP1 - SV 3rd and KR 4th (Dry)
FP2 - SV 3rd and KR 4th (Dry)
FP3 - SV 10th and KR 11th (WET)

Qualified - SV 8th and KR 7th (WET)

Race result - SV 3rd and KR 5th (Dry)

So in the dry SV and KR did very good. When in the wet however, they both prove to be not so good. Cannot drive in wet weather. Overrated, both of them. But in the dry race, with a superior car SV still managed to finish 3rd and KR 5th. The Ferrari car is very good. Too bad the Ferrari drivers are not so good, specially in the wet.

Thank you, have a nice day.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 11:49 (Ref:3771243)   #27
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Kempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
While you enjoy your day, take a look at wnut's post. He points out the most relevant fact that you ignore when you look at positions and not laptimes. Besides, last I learned, 3rd position was still behind 1st and 2nd where Mercedes ended up in Monza...
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 13:16 (Ref:3771261)   #28
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Ah yes, Monza. Let's recap shall we?

FP1 - SV 3rd and KR 4th (Dry)
FP2 - SV 3rd and KR 4th (Dry)
FP3 - SV 10th and KR 11th (WET)

Qualified - SV 8th and KR 7th (WET)

Race result - SV 3rd and KR 5th (Dry)

So in the dry SV and KR did very good. When in the wet however, they both prove to be not so good. Cannot drive in wet weather. Overrated, both of them. But in the dry race, with a superior car SV still managed to finish 3rd and KR 5th. The Ferrari car is very good. Too bad the Ferrari drivers are not so good, specially in the wet.

Thank you, have a nice day.
Red Bull feel that Vettel is up amongst the best wet-weather drivers of all time...

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/the-r...nna-schumacher

And as is regularly stated (including by Red Bull) 'Best of all, rain is the great equaliser.'

So looking at the performances you give for VET and RAI, it just suggests that the wet conditions allow other cars to exceed their normal dry performance.

It is also impossible to describe the difference between wet and dry as a binary condition - as all of the field will have had different conditions during FP3 and Q, the results only have little merit in comparing ability.
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 14:47 (Ref:3771285)   #29
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The cognitive dissonance on this forum is quite staggering at times...
Thanks Sigmund!
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Old 2 Oct 2017, 18:23 (Ref:3771342)   #30
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F1 guy you are excelling yourself recently!

There is nothing to point towards Vettel being good in the wet or good at Monza. Nothing at all.
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